MIL upset that we're not speaking to SIL

[GottaLoveABiscuit]

I'm probably a bit old to be still lurking around here as my son is now 23 but he is autistic and still lives at home. We all share many family issues so am looking for some advice. Apologies for the length but this is the abridged version!

My SIL has never been the best communicator and I have always said that she is the most self absorbed and ungrateful person I have ever met. Over the 40 years I've known her this has largely been ignored by everyone and if anything her parents still make excuses for her.

For context we live 200 miles away, I have fibromyalgia and osteoarthritis everywhere and my husband has Parkinson's disease. We do what we can and it's safe to say that we spend more time in FIL's house than she does.

Last year DFIL (85) became very ill for the second time in 6 months resulting in a lengthy hospital stay and the involvement of social services and carers. She only visited him once in hospital for a whole ten minutes and never offered any help at home. His wife, who has health issues of her own, managed everything with the help of her daughter who lives an hour away. DH was furious that she never offered any help at all - the irony of it is that she is a social worker who, until a couple of years ago, worked with the elderly.

Jump to February and I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I was fortunate in that it was the 'good' kind and it was dealt with by surgery and radiotherapy and due to the wonders of the NHS the cancer is gone. I now have one boob significantly smaller than the other and I'm on drugs for 5 years with crap side effects but obviously it could be worse!

My sister in law has never once asked me how I am or how we were managing. No phone calls or even text messages to either of us. My husband went to pieces when I received the diagnosis and that got worse until I had my surgery. That seriously affected his Parkinson's symptoms. It was a very trying time while we constantly waited for test results and I struggled to decide whether to have a lumpectomy or mastectomy.
On the whole we learnt that people are very kind and supportive, even people we hardly know.

Back in September we were at a family party and she didn't speak to us at all, never mind asking us how things are. My husband then decided that that was her last chance and he no longer feels we should make any effort with her or include her in any plans.

With Christmas approaching we have made arrangements for meals with the rest of my husband's family but not included SIL. We have already 'missed' her birthday which seems to have passed without comment. MIL (who spends a lot of time with her - holidays, Christmas etc) wants us to invite her and thinks we are being unreasonable.

We just feel that out lives are challenging enough without having to bother with someone who clearly doesn't give a flying @@c@ about us. Are we the ones in the wrong here?

And does that also mean not even calling them, or visiting at Christmas? They've been worried sick that they've done something to upset her. I know for a fact that she has sent them her Christmas list for this year via MIL.

Maybe she isn't keen on her father's second wife?

Not sure what the timeline is. I mean if she's a selfish horrible person in general I wouldn't expect that to change anytime soon.

I think how you feel is understandable OP, in terms of how she didn't show any care or concern for you or your DH.

I don't know how much you know about being a social worker, but it's incredibly demanding. SWs are usually harassed and overworked and have to do a lot of being nice to people who often aren't very nice to them. Social work, and indeed other helping/caring professions, can leave you with very little energy for your outside work life. I know when I was working FT in CAMHS and my dad fell ill, I couldn't provide anywhere near the level of support the family expected. Caring for an elderly or sick parent after caring for your clients all day is effectively doing a second shift. My family seemed to think I could just take time off at the drop of a hat - that's really not how it is when your job involves being there for vulnerable people. Yes, you can get carers leave, but that's usually unpaid, and it's there for emergencies to put arrangements in place, not necessarily to provide care yourself. I'm not sure what your expectations of her were, but if you were thinking she should pick up the slack simply because she lived closest, that's not always a fair ask.

I guess the other thing is, what's her relationship like with her father, as that will be a factor in how much an adult child may feel able to visit/do. There may be aspects of their relationship you don't know about.

If you simply don't like her and don't get on, then of course you don't have to have her at any functions you host or organise, but it would not be fair to ask MIL or other family members to exclude her from anything they are organising because you don't get on.

I can see the difficult position MIL is in here, and if you have a good relationship with her, it would be wise to ensure that you don't put her in a loyalty bind. Address any issues with SIL directly and allow MIL to remain as neutral as possible. You can't expect her to be happy that you are excluding her daughter, even if there are justifiable reasons.

My in laws are divorced and my FIL married again 20 years ago. They all still get on well and spend a lot of time together but we've never referred to his new wife as stepmum.

In this case she has one adult child, a part time job and a retired husband. It is not the caring that is the problem it is the fact that she doesn't seem to care.

They get on perfectly fine and she was certainly happy enough to use her for childcare in the school holidays and have her clean and cook meals while she was there.

Who get on perfectly fine?
You need to quote people when you're replying, OP.

I'm not saying she is entirely in the right - she could make more of an effort socially probably but having worked in that field, doesn't mean she needs to provide more care.

And respectfully, it sounds like FIL gets a fair amount from social services already - more so than I knew any of my elder vulnerable relatives to have received.

And again, respectfully, we all have our limits in what we can feel we can do for others.

I also have an autistic child and my family immediately accepted this means I'm limited in what I can do for the others. Sometimes I'm so worn out, I don't make much social interaction at gatherings either.

Honestly, in some ways I could be this SIL. It's not lack of caring about people either.

@GottaLoveABiscuit the problem with excluding SIL is that it is going to hurt your ILs and for that reason I'd include her

Not everyone is necessarily good at the emotional support side of things though. Despite my professional role, I would much rather do practical things to support family than emotionally support them, which obviously there's a context and a back story to. I have had to draw some fairly hard boundaries there. I'm not their therapist, and I can't help people who won't help themselves.

I would wager that there are some dynamics in the relationship she has with FIL and some history there that you're not fully aware of. Your relationship as a DIL is different, you've only had an adult relationship with him.

By saying that, you're implying that she should therefore become her father's carer.

It's like you don't take into consideration the fact that she has boundaries, and has chosen not to be a carer.

Absolutely fair to go NC and deserved from what you've said, but Christmas belongs to everyone so if you're arranging family get togethers and including everyone but her, then you're putting other family members in a very difficult position. Get them to pass on the invite but feel free to ignore and avoid her yourselves

Its not about the physical caring as that is all dealt with - its about the fact that she doesn't actually care about them. There have been no family issues, no falling out, she just never gets in touch at all. It used to be very differnet when they were useful to her and there the list is absolutely endless...

I think before excluding her OP, I would try to have a conversation about how you and you DH feels.

All right, I'm going to be that person.... is there any chance, given that it's in the family, that your SIL has autism? My DD is on the spectrum and it wouldn't occur to her to ask me constantly how I was. If someone TOLD her that she ought to ask after my health and she ought to care for her DF she'd probably do so, but she wouldn't think to constantly check up on me and she would HATE having to do personal care of any kind for someone.

I could be way off, but it just struck me, that's all.

We arent putting anyone in difficult positions because they all do there own things at Christmas and she spends a week at my MILs house and doesn't even visit her Dad. We visit mid December and do our Christmas with the inlaws and she has never been invited to that because it evolved as we don't get to spend Christmas with either of them.

I think where you are getting a hard time, OP, is that it is basically controlling and unhealthy to believe you know best how another person should conduct their relationships. Have you even addressed this with her? It doesn't seem like it, yet you expect her to act differently and now she isn't you are trying to control how others in the family relate to her. It's actually none of your business. If you wanted more support in either FiLs care or your own difficult time then you should have at least asked her/ reached out yourselves. And now she isn't doing what ypu want her to do but refuse to articulate to her you are deciding to coopt the rest of the family into punishing her.

You may never agree with how she relates to her dad - that is for him to sort out. Ypu may be hurt about her lack of interest- what interest have you shown in her? Have you tried to reach out? She may just not be interested in explaining herself to you - that's her decision, you don't have tp understand or like it. But deciding that the rest of the family should choose between you and her for these things- sorry but you are the one in the wrong there.

I'm confused.

How many Christmases has she not been invited to?

I'm going to bet on there being stuff in the relationship that hasn't been evident to you. Things aren't always what they seem.

Maybe while her children were younger she wanted them to have a relationship with him/his wife? But isn't particularly keen herself?

I mean it may be as you say that she's just totally uncaring, but in my experience people don't generally distance themselves or put in very strong boundaries with close relatives for no reason.

I understand your mil being upset... of course she wants all her children to get on and to be able to spend time with them all together.

I think ultimately this is your dh decision given that its predominantly his family issue and I'd be supporting him with whatever he feels is the best way to proceed with that.

So to clear things up, MIL is bio mother of Dh and SIL

And SIL has never been invited to the Christmases you attend with in laws "because it evolved we don't get to spend Christmas with either of them".

Sounds like there is strife between FIL and MIL and SIL is as caught up in the middle as you all.are, only more so as she hasn't actively been invited to family events?!

Ah, would love to hear about that!

I mean the useful bit.

Was your MIL the OW?