Age appropriate or bad behaviour?

[Nespressso]

Im not sure if I’ve been allowing my 4 yo (just turned 4) to be getting away with more messing about than I should do. She’s generally a sweet girl but doesn’t do as I ask, ever, really without it being a big deal.

I’ve read “how to talk so little kids will
listen” and all the other books and actually wonder if I’m pandering too much song these lines.

eg “it’s time for a bath”
she will say No! I don’t want to! Etc
ill say let’s make a race, who can get uk the stairs fastest
“no! I don’t want a bath, I want to play”
”well let’s play X in the bath” or let’s have a bath then we can do Y before story etc
she might go upstairs, then immediately go to her room and hide under her blanket “mummy play hide and seek!”
etc

doesn’t matter if this is getting dressed (which she still won’t really do herself, I have to do under protest) putting on shoes, leaving the house, doesn’t matter

she doesn’t do ANYTHING I say first time round and I think I’ve been just excusing this as age appropriate behaviour but actually I’m getting really cross and wondering whether I need to be firmer.

this isn’t about tactics to get her to do what I want. It’s about the crux of should I HAVE to jump through all these hoops? Should she just do as she is bloody well asked?!

She's behaving in a way that was very normal for a toddler and has never had to learn to stop. Some parents will accept/enjoy/tolerate this for much longer, some days there is time for messing about and not on others. My tolerance for such behaviour was quite low, so I rarely asked more than twice.

My tolerance was zero. My children just did what they were told. We started that way when they were very young. Children need rules and guidelines that stay fixed. We didn’t have to shout, threaten or punish. They were brought up to behave. This style of parenting seems to have gone out of fashion. Trying to get my GC to do what they were asked used to wear me out.

I think it would depend if you're having to make a game for everything - bath, shoes, meals etc. I imagine that would be exhausting and, for me, quite annoying. I would definitely be less tolerating if I was always having to race or play some kind of game but to get DC to do simple tasks. School definitely won't be doing that. If it's just the bath and the game helps then I'd go with it longer, especially if there was an issue around that particular activity.

My 4.5yo used to be like this but by 3.5 she'd mostly learnt that she should do what I ask (except bedtime, she'll always stall as much as she can!) however, I do give her warnings/run downs of what we're going to do so "after you've eaten breakfast we need to get dressed quickly today because we're going to X"

So what did you do when they didn't do what they were told, then?

If they always just did it then you had unicorn kids and it's nothing to do with your parenting.

If you used some magical technique that worked every time then it might be helpful to share it rather than just making vague comments about parents these days?

She's still very small. Small kids don't do transitions well. My 3 are aged between 6 and 12 now and the other day I said we needed to leave the house and everyone just put on their coats and their shoes and we went! New phase of parenthood clearly!

School absolutely manage kid's behavior via points and games ect...

Just turned 4 - so apx a year away from starting reception.

She'll need to be better at doing as she's told once she gets there ...

I'd bring out my calm but cross voice now. Mummy's not pissing about.

And the dreaded consequences. And actually follow through with them. You wont have to do it many times before she gets the message - i've had enough and if you don't do x, y z now as i've asked a b c will happen.

(make sanctions a thing which is going to take effect that day or nearby if poss and easy for you to do. Not stuff like NO CHOCOLATE FOR A YEAR! More - 'We Wont Go To The Park Tomorrow Morning' or We Wont Watch CBBies later.)

Many people say give rewards for good behaviour ie - ie if you do x y z now i will GIVE you a b c, rather than sanctions as above. However personally i don't think kids should be rewarded for simply behaving. I think that should be base line)

Many people say give rewards for good behaviour ie - ie if you do x y z now i will GIVE you a b c, rather than sanctions as above. However personally i don't think kids should be rewarded for simply behaving. I think that should be base line)

I agree in the main, but I try to recognise the good behaviour and tie it in with the fun stuff. So it's not a reward as such but it's just spelling it out for the kids, i.e.

"Last time we went to the park you were really well behaved, you stayed on the path while you were riding your bike and you were kind to your brother, so I feel confident we can go to the park again today because I know I can trust you to do those things"

"Because you were really helpful and you tidied up your toys this morning, it means I have time to play X with you"

Sounds convoluted but it's been helpful for me.

I would give a 5 minute warning.
"In 5 mins its bath time, then it's bathtime now, toys away"
So give instructions and then follow through
So get up ,start packing away and take her upstairs.
Protests
" it's bath/ bed/ teeth time"
No cajoling or any bribes

These are normal basic things that are expected and children learn very quickly to start playing parents off and making demands so no none of that.
All the wordy stuff , children just stop listening

Ps
Don't ask, tell her what's happening next!

My kids both responded well to this:

"Do you want me to carry you upstairs, or do you want to walk?".

"Do you want me to put your shoes on, or do you want to do it?".

In both examples the only available option is for them to do what they are supposed to do, there is no 2nd option.

Most of the time they wanted to do everything themselves so they would dash off and do it quick before I did it for them.

Obviously if they say they will walk, but then go and hide under a bed you have to make sure you get them and carry them to where they are supposed to be. They have to understand either they do it, or you do.

I'd never ever heard of Unicorn kids. I just had to Google it to see what it meant!

I don't know why you are being so
dismissive of the pp that you are quoting.

From when he was very tiny we used to talk and explain to my DS the whys and wherefores of what we needed him to do and we had never had any problems with him not doing as he was told. Because he understood what was being asked of him and why. It's not that he was inherently good. It was just a style of parenting that treated him from the outset that he was a rational human being . And it worked for us .

@takealettermsjones yes i totally agree.

Once you've achieved that better level of co-operation it's nice to be extra pleased and happy. So child behaving = happy life, basically.

It's a fine line isn't it. Between levering them into behaving using 'choices' and turning all of life into a bloody bargain/bartering situation 😂

My youngest (nearly 11) is going through a tricky
''<big sigh> i don't want tooooooo''
stage and i've found myself going back basics. ''Do this, and you can still do that'' - and more importantly you'll find mummy will be cheerful again and get off your back !!! lol

How exactly? I say to my 2 year old "time to brush your teeth now". He says "No, I don't want to!" What would you do in that situation? Just grab him and start ramming the toothbrush into his mouth

Also with the running away when its time to put shoes on and for out. I have actually just gone out without them. You need someone else to be there to look after them for this to work of course!

You only have to do it once!

It goes "Time to put shoes on"

Child legs it, usually laughing

"If you want to come out with me you need to put your shoes/coat on"

Child will not comply.

"So you are not coming then?"

Child still has no intention of putting shoes on.

"OK see you later then"

They will howl when you go without them, but the next time you have that conversation they will be surprisingly compliant!

Just read your update. My son would listen to the explanation and then say "Nooooo! I don't want to! I want to play!"

You just had naturally compliant kids - lucky you!

@Feelinadequate23 that's what I have to do with my two year old, otherwise he'd not brush his teeth

Same with putting his shoes on or getting dressed , taking medicine.

I wouldn't say either of my kids listen to me particularly well. I don't expect them to listen to me every time though. That's unrealistic.

My 4 year old is getting better but she doesn't like tidying up. So I always have to threaten I'll take something away if she doesn't tidy up.

This is good.

Or, get off the table please ! ' ok I see you don't want to get off the table. I am counting to 5 and if you don't get off by the time i get to 5- I'm coming to get you off the table because it's not safe '.

I would say it's entirely age appropriate behaviour, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be being firmer either iykwim.

Nothing wrong with turning things into a game and avoiding a battle, but don't do it for everything. It's important that they learn to listen and do as they're told too.

Counting to three is quite effective in my house. I don't get to three every time but enough that they know if I reach 3 they still have to do what I'm asking but they'll lose a toy for the night too.

100% agree

That's great, I'm glad it worked, genuinely. I'm not dismissing her, I'm challenging her to be helpful rather than unhelpful. OP posted because she's worried about her child's behaviour. Comments like "my child always behaved, and I didn't have to shout or punish, but nobody does it like this any more" are inherently unhelpful because she's not actually explained what she did do. There's also an undertone of superiority, whether intended or not. That's also unhelpful.

Don't ask her, tell her. If she doesn't get up and in the bath her favourite teddy bear goes in time out until she gets in the bath (I've found this more effective than putting the child in time out for some reason!)

This. The illusion of choice makes them feel empowered and more likely to comply.

Ahhhh I'm on kid #3 and I never thought of this. Thanks!

I have no idea why or how it works but giving the favourite teddy the consequence also seems to be helping with developing empathy. I'm running with it.