Age appropriate or bad behaviour?

[Nespressso]

Im not sure if I’ve been allowing my 4 yo (just turned 4) to be getting away with more messing about than I should do. She’s generally a sweet girl but doesn’t do as I ask, ever, really without it being a big deal.

I’ve read “how to talk so little kids will
listen” and all the other books and actually wonder if I’m pandering too much song these lines.

eg “it’s time for a bath”
she will say No! I don’t want to! Etc
ill say let’s make a race, who can get uk the stairs fastest
“no! I don’t want a bath, I want to play”
”well let’s play X in the bath” or let’s have a bath then we can do Y before story etc
she might go upstairs, then immediately go to her room and hide under her blanket “mummy play hide and seek!”
etc

doesn’t matter if this is getting dressed (which she still won’t really do herself, I have to do under protest) putting on shoes, leaving the house, doesn’t matter

she doesn’t do ANYTHING I say first time round and I think I’ve been just excusing this as age appropriate behaviour but actually I’m getting really cross and wondering whether I need to be firmer.

this isn’t about tactics to get her to do what I want. It’s about the crux of should I HAVE to jump through all these hoops? Should she just do as she is bloody well asked?!

That's called luck, two of my 5 kids reacted like your son, the other 3 would either listen and then disregard what I'd said and just say "no I don't want to" or wouldn't even listen at all and just start screaming/tantrumming.

Also on the choices thing, two of mine would listen to "do you want to put your shoes on or shall I put your shoes on?" And then very confidently go "no I don't want shoes on" so these things do not work on every child.

As a parent of a once very headstrong toddler & a Primary School teacher, I 100% agree with this! ⬆️

Clear, simple, non-negotiable 'rules' & immediate, appropriate consequences that you're able to follow through with - EVERY SINGLE TIME.

No need to be an ogre about it but you do need to be firm & be prepared to go through the initial push-back without caving in to the inevitable tears & 'you're the worst mummy in the world' crap!

OP, I do a lot of telling my two (age 7 and nearly 4) what's coming up later and what's coming up next, and as a PP mentioned, giving a choice but it's not really a choice as it gets the end result you want. I also find pretending to be a monster who wants to eat stinky children works a treat too. Failing that, no one died from missing bath night, sometimes, it's just not worth it.

I'm fairly firm and am careful not to make tasks I want done sound optional. Re the bath example, if I say it's time for a bath and I get push back, I'd just make it clear that there's no play until the bath has been had. I usually will just reassure that it will be quick and that the sooner it's done, the sooner they get to do something they want eg play or have a story. If any faffing means it takes longer, then the consequence is that they lose time the other side as I see that as a natural consequence. If you mess about and resist bath time, that eats into play time the other side, so if you don't want that to happen, let's be quick and get it done and dusted.

Also, I do make sure I give praise when they listen and do things promptly. I'll say 'great listening' or similar.

But yeah, my tolerance for not listening is fairly low. I never shout but I'm firm when I need to be.

Thanks all

i already do all the counting to 3
you walk or I carry you etc

already do all the ‘tricks’. I would still count these as “jumping through hoops” tho. The child isn’t just doing as you say if you are still having to say count to 3 or you do it or I do it etc

but every single time still need to do these
she won’t just say “ok mummy!” And do it.
counting to 3 and then enacting a consequence is still not just simple asking and doing, nor is pretending to be a monster.

I know there are ways/ tactics to get them to comply. But has this all gone to far? That’s my question. Should I just be able to ask her to do something and she does it, without counting, without pretending to chase her or race, or pretend to be a monster, without offering a choice.

It sounds like the ground work wasn't put in place consistently as a toddler so she's still stuck there at the moment. Step back and be firm but consistent, you know the theory, she will get it but she's only small.

I do think a lot of it is personality.

Apparently my younger sister was very compliant, whereas I would basically laugh in my parent's face even if being told off. And my parents were strict and used consequences and we'd get smacked.

@mimblewimble yes she has always been a really defiant child. Trouble is she absolutely hates being told off and gets really upset.

so I’m in a situation where I’m bending over backwards to get her to do things nicely, and if I tell her off she gets (genuinely) upset and then starts crying. I do think the upset is genuine and she starts saying things like “I’m so sorry mummy, I’m so sorry I made you mad” I’m sorry it was my fault, I want to be a good girl, I don’t want to be naughty.

and the thing still doesn’t get done as then I have to comfort her and calm her down and the whole thing just takes ages. I don’t often tell her off so it’s not like I berate her on a daily basis.

Sorry, to answer your question no I don't think it's gone too far - my kids were much like your DD when they were little, and now they are very lovely and respectful teenagers. Never had a complaint about behaviour from school. And I have a much better relationship with them now than I had with my own (more authoritarian) parents at that age. But again that could also be personality!

You should do what feels right for you and your DD, rather than worry about what anyone else thinks.

Have a look at some of the strategies on parenting children with ODD. She probably hasn't got it but you can at least use the strategies to help with her.

Cross posted with you :)

With one of mine, I always found that locking horns and ending up with them upset made things much much worse, as you describe. We tried all the things I thought I 'should' be doing and they honestly just escalated it and I felt like a complete failure. Some kids are just harder work than others! We never found a perfect solution but I'm pretty confident that maintaining a good relationship rather than striving for perfect obedience has been helpful.

I had one who responded to stern looks, consequences, the occasional time out, high expectations of behaviour. If I'd just had him I would totally be congratulating myself for my stellar parenting.

Middle child is then completely demand avoidant, doesn't care about having toys removed, etc, never did anything asked. Turns out she's autistic now she is older, and that complete inability to fall in with what others.are doing is still present.

Then had another girl who's different again, much more anxious and like your child OP in that gets v upset when told off.

It honestly isn't your parenting. I think if the lines of communication are open and a few key things are non negotiable (washing weekly and not running away, in our case) - you'll be ok.

From the persons comment you’re responding to it’s very clear there was no magical technique used but instead the technique of parenting. My kids were the same they did as they were asked because of how I raised them. I’m not sure why you’re trying to put the poster down by suggesting their well behaved children is nothing to do with their parenting?

I'm not, I'm saying put your money where your mouth is and explain! "The technique of parenting" says nothing. Neither does "how I raised them." How? The OP is asking for help, so if you know of some amazing parenting technique that will make her child do as they're told then bloody help her? Just coming on a thread to make holier than thou comments about "it's how I raised them, nobody parents any more" is, again, unhelpful!

@takealettermsjones i agree with you.

the number of posts of read recently on other threads where people have written “I never threatened or punished my child, I just raised them to behave”

and I’m like - how?! So they just did what you asked then? As that’s the only logical conclusion is you’ve had a child that is generally on the compliant side!