To think consequences for ds aren’t effective

[ohowelaughed]

I know I’ll probably get a bit of a flaming here.

Ds is 3, on the cusp of turning 4. I always kind of thought three was the turning point, where you could reason with them a bit and have some age appropriate sanctions and bribery rewards.

Rewards do kind of work in the ‘if you get upstairs NOW you can have a chocolate button’ way. But anything like a sticker chart or similar just doesn’t work. Similarly consequences don’t seem to work. If you say you’ll confiscate a toy or you will turn the TV off it just seems to escalate the situation out of control, and also means the original behaviour you were trying to address gets kind of lost.

I know that sounds a bit vague but if I give an example - he climbed up on a window sill the other day and I said in my bright parenting voice ‘go on the floor please - might slip there!’

I am ignored twice so moved him. He found this hilarious and just kept climbing up. In the end put him in his room and he got furious and upset, screaming and crying and took ages to calm down … I’m not convinced he learned anything from that.

I don’t think he’s ND, who knows for sure but definitely no concerns raised thus far.

He's probably too young for a sticker chart. Mine really liked them by about 5 or so.

Consequences - well, at that age it varies a lot. If he's experiencing emotional overwhelm you are better off with distract and move on because consequences may well just add to the overwhelm and make his emotions worse.

Natural consequences - eg you threw your train out of the window so now you can't have it - is a different story.

Even as he gets older consequences often take some time to work.

A firm voice and a closed choice works best with this age.

• Off the window sill. Either get off yourself or i will take you off.

Say it. And mean it.

They don't learn once, you do it on repeat for what feels like forever.

You should have distracted him after you lifted him down, if he wants to climb does he have things he can do that on indoors? One of those Pikler triangle things or similar?

I think for that I'd get him more interested in doing something else, rather the fun he's making for himself.

You're describing punishments rather than consequences and it's fairly well established that punishment isn't particularly effective. I agree with the poster who said it's better to distract at that age. So I'd have told him firmly to get down, removed him if necessary and then distracted

Yep as above Iwouldn't get too hung up on issuing punishments. It doesn't work for a lot of kids and just makes them more angry or upset.

You need to help them to achieve what you want, not just demand it. And distraction is good too.

Are you escalating before he has time to process the instruction? I don’t mean if he is in immediate danger where you just have to grab him, but if it’s something not dangerous but not desirable, do you go straight from ‘no’ to sanction or is there a ladder of actions including telling him what will happen if he continues against your instructions?

Don't let him ignore you - the option is "get down or I'll get you down". Then take him out of the room and away from temptation.

Punishments don't really work at three I don't think, they're too young to understand anything that's not an immediate consequence.

Ditch the bright parenting voice if you are claiming that he's in danger.

It's hard, but:

1. Relentless positivity, commentate on what's going well ALL the time. 'Excellent sitting DS!'.

1. Don't offer bribes, it's the wrong way round. When DS complies, THEN give him a sticker/sweet, don't mention it beforehand (this is called positive reinforcement).

1. Decide your red lines and stick to them: short instruction and 'thank you' on the end (assumes compliance).

I'm a secondary teacher and I still have to do this every single lesson to create the right environment for learning.

This is obvious isn’t it and to be fair would probably have been what I’d say myself once. It really doesn’t work. Sometimes if you get VERY stern he … laughs 🤷‍♀️

I am not a pushover and I’m a teacher myself so I do know what the voice is and how to use it. Unfortunately my own DS is immune!

Thanks @Octavia64 . I do use natural consequence but they obviously aren’t always effective (slipping and breaking his neck is a bit harsh!) But I did think if I had just left him he’d probably have got down himself in seconds without all the drama.

You used your fun voice and it became a game and then he was punished for the game, of course he was angry!

Try "no thank you, don't climb up there, you'll get hurt." You can use a nice but firm voice. But the communication needs to be clear.

And I'd advise using a neutral space like the step because his room is supposed to be safe, not a punishment zone (as he gets older he will just play there instead of reflecting).

It will be a few years of rinse and repeat but he will get there. I don't think one-offs like that can be addressed with a sticker chart, plus depending on age and nature, some kids cannot focus yet on delayed gratification and the slow burn to earn rewards. Hang in there! X

And yes provide other avenues for the need.

So trying to draw "we draw on paper let's sit at the tavle/ ooh have you ever drawn outside with sticks" whatever.

If needing to climb can you provide things they can climb on? Or take them outside or if you're lucky enough to have something climbable in the garden? (we had one sofa that became the climbing sofa in our house although I know that's not great for all families! We also bought a pull up bar and an IKEA gym mat - small house and a big need for movement!!)

I just said a firm 'no we don't do that' very short explanation then moved the item or the child away or I stop giving attention and got on with something and we moved on

Even now much older consequences make no sense to me and i don't remember having to have the same conversation twice

The thing with the voice is that generally the firmer or sterner or angrier you are the more it makes a situation worse. Anger tends to be met with anger - shout at him and he shouts back, stern voice and he either laughs or gets stroppy and defiant in response. I wouldn’t mind stroppy if it was stroppy compliance but it isn’t.

I am really making an effort to be more positive with him - we’ve had a hard run lately - so that’s why. I don’t consider myself a gentle parent or a pushover but I do struggle to manage DS at times especially in those ‘here’s my line in the sand’ and he puts his foot over it.

So you’re probably describing fairly compliant children here. And DS can be - but he can also … not be!

Try distraction ‘oh come look at this Bobby, there’s a funny bird outside the window’

Sanctions aren’t consequences.

Consequences are, not being allowed in that room because you aren’t safe with that window.

Not going to the park because you won’t get your shoes on.

Don’t expect a three/four yr old to have great impulse control. Engineer the situation to make it easier. Why spend time arguing and trying to control the child when you can control the situation?

Teach positively- let’s make sure that window is locked so we are all safe. Let’s use both hands to hold the cup so it stays steady. Let’s keep the food in the kitchen so it’s easy to clean up.

Boundaries- food stays in the kitchen, windows are kept locked, balls stay in the garden- lots of little phrases that accumulate to common sense as they get older.

Structure, boundaries, and communication.

If you're expecting him to learn immediately from his mistakes, that isn't realistic. With the windowsill example, when you say "I'm not convinced he learnt anything from that", I agree. Parenting is a long game and a lot of it at this age is repeating things you've said 100 times already until it finally sinks in. There's no magic way to tell him once and he'll never do it again. Not in my experience anyway!

He’s 3. Cut him some slack! You seem hung up on compliance and consequences/punishments. As others have said, distract. ‘Catch ‘em being good’ is a good motto. Praise the good and build a positive relationship. Offer to ‘help’, eg can I help you get down from there, it’s not safe. You’re expecting a very small person to have the processing ability and reasoning of an adult, then unfairly chastising because he can’t process what you want him to do quickly enough.

You don't need to shout.

Laughter is also a very normal reaction to getting told off in children - it's like a nervous reaction. Just ignore it (easier said than done, I know).

Thanks. Some helpful stuff here. @Rocksaltrita you’re probably right … I do sometimes feel all tired and run down and then have unrealistic expectations. I don’t remember being three in any great detail so I don’t always know if I’m way off in my expectations - I definitely was when he was younger! So I imagine I probably am now too.

Also, where appropriate just walk off and ignore him. Don’t engage in the drama and ensure lots of attention for good behaviour

The thing is, it doesn't really matter that he doesn't like the stern voice and pushes back, it's important to use it anyway so that he knows the difference between a request and a boundaried instruction.

He might well get arsey back but thats not in your control, of course he's pissed off if he can't do what he wants. But this isnt the shit bit of parenting of digging in anyway.

2-4 was a tough age for us but you come out the other side with a child that knows that your firm voice means something and those boundaries make everything so much easier on you both as they get older.

I know - still infuriating though.