Page 10 | NMW to increase again next year to £12.21 ph.

ZoeZee · 2024-10-29T19:51:32+00:00

If you’ve not had a pay rise this year, despite bringing it up to your employer, and now there’s set to be another 6% NMW increase next year (which is fantastic, don’t get me wrong) the pay gap is narrowing ever more between skilled/unskilled employees. Skilled and those with MANY years of experience, might as ditch their responsible/stressful jobs (which often keep you awake at night) and look for something that doesn’t have the added responsibility? Almost 20 years experience means nothing to some employers! AIBU? Any employers who have a view on this increase, please let me know how this might affect you and your staff.

lateatwork · 29/10/2024 22:01

Will it reduce the benefits bill as the top up will now be less for some?

HairyPie · 29/10/2024 22:01

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Mealplanningfatigue · 29/10/2024 22:01

Shitshower · 29/10/2024 22:00

Possibly not, but keeping the poorest workers poor isn’t going to solve the problem either.

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We don't live in a communist state, there will always be someone who earns the least and someone who earns the most, that's Capitalism.

Tumbleweed101 · 29/10/2024 22:01

This only works if cost of living stands still otherwise everyone is just paying more and more for the basics. We need wage increases without the increase in prices for everything.

Also the thresholds for free eye tests, dental care and prescriptions need to rise along with this as I used to be eligible but the min wage increases have pushed me out of the pay point where I got these but in real terms I'm no better off than I was then. As someone with a very high glasses prescription the little help I got was very valuable to me.

PassTheBiscuitsPlease · 29/10/2024 22:03

Chocolateteabag · 29/10/2024 20:28

It's not that the employer has to pay £12 per hour, it's that everyone above NMW will also now want an equivalent rise in their pay per hour

You could otherwise have people who had been promoted up a level now on the same pay as those with a lower skill or responsibility level
Would you like to manage people who were paid the same as you?

Then there is the rise in Employers NI to also factor in

This will mean an overall rise in the cost of employing people - either reduce the heads you employ or pass on the cost to your customers

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This.

Original poster

ZoeZee · 29/10/2024 22:04

Maverickess · 29/10/2024 21:51

I think you might find that's not as easy and stress free as you think it is.
KP is probably one of the hardest roles in hospitality and without a KP nothing works, it's a dirty, physically hard job with long hours, with very little respect from anywhere - as we can see from the tone of your post.
KP is the last one out the kitchen and the first one in, they're the ones waiting while you decide you might have a dessert or not at 10.30pm when the kitchen closed an hour ago.

Is it rocket science or does it need a degree? No, but that doesn't mean it's not important enough to pay a decent wage and respect? Also no.

Totally agree with you that jobs with higher requirements for entry/doing them/responsibility also deserve more pay, of course they do, but illustrating your point with the attitude you've shown about jobs like 'pot wash' is half the problem.

We keep reading how shit service is on here, well you know what, maybe there's just no endless supply of people willing to do these jobs for wages they can't live on.
You want services like restaurants/shops/care homes staffed?
The people staffing these industries are sick of having the piss taken out of them and if we're going to attract people to these jobs, then they need to pay enough so that people can do more than survive on the bare minimum.

Look on the bright side though, if all these skilled workers give up their jobs and move into the fabled less stressful jobs in hospitality, retail & care, at least service would improve?

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Oh believe me, many don’t respect the role I’m in either, far from it!

I do get your point! Sorry to any pot washers out there. It’s currently a job many of DS’s friends have taken on, during their college courses and they do seem to love it! I’m seriously considering it for £12.21 ph!

OP posts:

bulb34 · 29/10/2024 22:04

DownThePubWithStevieNicks · 29/10/2024 20:06

I find this a really depressing attitude. By all means fight for better pay, but to begrudge a NMW increase because you think you’re better is awful. Care workers with 20 years experience might be on NMW.

If you have so much responsibility that you’re kept up at night worrying about it, I’d be very surprised to hear you’re on less than c. £20p/h equivalent. That’s still a big gap from NMW.

I have a high stress job. I’m paid accordingly (probs around £40 p/h). I’ve had NMW jobs, many years ago. They were awful. Still plenty of stress, but next to no autonomy, and treated like crap by employers and customers alike.

This.

Carpr · 29/10/2024 22:04

Shitshower · 29/10/2024 21:56

So what are the suggestions for those of us at the bottom of the pile?? Many on Mumsnet scream about those on benefits and rub their hands with glee at the thought of the Government being able to check our bank accounts, whilst suggesting we get a second or third job to survive or “just get a better paying job” when we can’t pay our bills.
Then our wages go up and that’s also wrong, because now we are getting paid more and we aren’t nearly as skilled as higher paid people. You can’t have it all ways and in the middle, and NMW jobs are hard with the poorest in work benefits ever.

Tbh Tescos, Asda, Sainsbury’s etc can easily afford decent wages, I don’t work in a supermarket, but I work FT and I need UC. That’s more the issue, everyone is jumping on the little guy getting a pay rise, hardly anyone is looking at the big fishes with their 3 million a year wages and multi billion profits.
That’s where anger should be, that there is a system where a few can get so much off the backs of paying so many so little.

I think it's because we all know that those very large companies will get round it by reducing hours, automating more so less staff, etc. Nothing seems to get in the way of profits and paying dividends.

ChallahPlaiter · 29/10/2024 22:04

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Socialism? Hardly.

You should probably stop using words you don’t understand.

DownThePubWithStevieNicks · 29/10/2024 22:05

Mealplanningfatigue · 29/10/2024 22:01

We don't live in a communist state, there will always be someone who earns the least and someone who earns the most, that's Capitalism.

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Capitalism also means letting the market dictate prices, including for wages. If the market doesn’t think your skills and experience are worth more, you won’t get it.

You can’t have it both ways.

Original poster

ZoeZee · 29/10/2024 22:05

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^this with bells on!

OP posts:

Mealplanningfatigue · 29/10/2024 22:05

DownThePubWithStevieNicks · 29/10/2024 22:05

Capitalism also means letting the market dictate prices, including for wages. If the market doesn’t think your skills and experience are worth more, you won’t get it.

You can’t have it both ways.

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I agree. It's going to be an interesting few years ahead of us.

Horseracingbuddy · 29/10/2024 22:05

MangoRose · 29/10/2024 22:00

I think this just shows the lack of understanding of some types of businesses.

I am involved with the business side of a small pre school. They are a community pre school and the government funding is so tiny and if there are ever increases they are miniscule. The additional free hours having to be offered are making it extremely difficult, esp for 2 year olds where the ratios are 1:4.

The every increasing NMW is making it extremely hard for these settings to stay open, the gap between a new level 2 qualified member of staff and a manager in charge of everything are becoming increasingly tiny pay wise but the responsibility is huge, the budget just cannot stretch to give everyone the same % increase and the increases in rent etc (even in a church hall) are massive due to rises in utilities.

I imagine there will be many closing with more large increases, it's not because they are badly run businesses at all, they are fantastic places with wonderful staff who give our children an amazing start in life!

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Yep - I agree, it's the small 'providing an essential service' businesses that cant afford the increase. Whether it be nurseries, childcare or pubs - they are vital for communities to thrive.

bulb34 · 29/10/2024 22:06

ExtraOnions · 29/10/2024 20:12

If you can’t afford to pay your staff £12ph, you shouldn’t have a business.

I agree.

Lulubo1 · 29/10/2024 22:07

I worry for businesses and the effect it has on employees. Employers NIC's are being increased, the threshold at which it kicks in is going to be changed, and then if the NMW is increased it absolutely is going to affect employees in a bad way. Employers might not be able to hire new staff, it's going to be too expensive and this will also affect pay rises. It could also affect pay rises for current employees. It's not just £12 per hour, there are other costs. Employer NI costs (currently 13.8%), pension costs (legal minimum 3%) etc. Its not as simple as the headline of "£12 per hour"

I don't deny things need to change, the cost of living has taken a toll on everyone. It just feels a lot all at once. I am not a business owner, I am an employee in a small firm, and genuinely concerned for how things might change

friendlycat · 29/10/2024 22:08

The problem is across so many areas. You will now have companies both large and small having to pay more in staffing costs. It’s just a fact. Combine this increase with the NI increase and it’s quite significant.

Large companies will just raise their prices so expect the costs of everyday goods and services to cost you more. Smaller businesses may not be able to afford this and will reduce staffing levels if possible , or just close. Nurseries are an absolute case in point.

Differentstarts · 29/10/2024 22:09

Didshejustsaythatoutloud · 29/10/2024 21:42

You are more than welcome
I understand your perspective. I work for nhs, £29,000 pa. Qualified sn earn only 5,000 pa more than me.
Sorry to say "only" £5, 000...but, they have way more responsibilities, ie, drug error=death.
That's not to say they work physically harder, some do not 😂,

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I know im completely missing the point here but I spend a lot of time in hospitals and drug errors are a daily occurrence they very rarely result in death it would have to be one hell of a mistake to give someone enough of something to kill them.

yawn25 · 29/10/2024 22:09

DownThePubWithStevieNicks · 29/10/2024 20:06

I find this a really depressing attitude. By all means fight for better pay, but to begrudge a NMW increase because you think you’re better is awful. Care workers with 20 years experience might be on NMW.

If you have so much responsibility that you’re kept up at night worrying about it, I’d be very surprised to hear you’re on less than c. £20p/h equivalent. That’s still a big gap from NMW.

I have a high stress job. I’m paid accordingly (probs around £40 p/h). I’ve had NMW jobs, many years ago. They were awful. Still plenty of stress, but next to no autonomy, and treated like crap by employers and customers alike.

I'm a veterinary surgeon and on £15 an hour... my job definitely keeps me up at night

HowYouSpellingThat10 · 29/10/2024 22:10

It seems a big jump to me after recent large jumps.

My husband will now be on 13p an hour more than the new staff he trains in his manual job with 20 years experience.

They'll probably be forced to put his wages up a tiny bit but the gap will decrease and it really isn't worth his key holder responsibility and staying later than everyone else to lock up. Or providing the training.

Bute everything we buy will now go up so overall we'll be worse off.

This just feels a steep rise and coupled with NI rise for employers will be the end of many small businesses.

Shitshower · 29/10/2024 22:13

Thing is, and I mean this politely, it only seems to be the rise to NMW that is causing the issue to people.

I can’t recall the last time I read on here about an employee on (for example) 60k a year getting a rise and worrying what it will do to their employer. It only seems an issue when the lowest paid appear to be getting something.

Cost of living affects us all, only some of us, due to being poor, have no reserves to pay for it all.
Alongside the increase I would like to see the taper rate change on UC so that people who need it actually get a shot at earning and keeping a bit of money.

hamsterchump · 29/10/2024 22:13

DrBlackbird · 29/10/2024 21:21

This ^^

After years of blood, sweat and tears through three years of covid, we are looking at the very real possibility of closing. That’ll be 10 people out of work plus knock on effect on other small businesses that we buy from including some who work out of their own homes.

I’ll be bloody gutted. Despite investing tens of thousands and years of unpaid work, we, the owners, have never taken a single penny out of the business, which serves our community.

I’m sick of Starmer and Co portraying every business as if we were all exploitive multinationals deliberately screwing over workers. This govt is killing us.

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Don't worry, you'll be able to go straight out and get one of those brilliant, dead easy and fine for everyone else NMW jobs now won't you and be paid the new princely sum to boot? Wait, the work is harder and more insecure than you thought and oh it's not enough to live on is it? Oh dear, well at least you'll have learned something about empathy and seeing beyond the end of your nose.

Having a business means taking on quite a bit of risk for the hope of an increased reward. You aren't entitled to cheap labour to keep your failing business going, you aren't a charity and if you leave a gap in the market you will be replaced.

KendraTheVampyrSlayer · 29/10/2024 22:13

Feelingathomenow · 29/10/2024 21:00

With that well reasoned argument, I take it you were one of them!

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"One of them"? Pesky working class and their need to be paid enough to feed and house themselves aye? Maybe we should just bring back the workhouses and get all the great unwashed off the streets?

MangoRose · 29/10/2024 22:14

Horseracingbuddy · 29/10/2024 22:05

Yep - I agree, it's the small 'providing an essential service' businesses that cant afford the increase. Whether it be nurseries, childcare or pubs - they are vital for communities to thrive.

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Absolutely, they 100% deserve to be paid more but its just not possible.

On another note, some people have mentioned NHS B2s and 3s. There are many apprenticeships now within the NHS and they pay even a 16 yo apprentice as a B2, this is a fantastic wage for them and gives them opportunity to train whilst earning and then progress into higher paid roles. They still have a huge amount of responsibility in these roles but by making the lower bands apprentices I think this is so much better.

I obviously would like to see people earning better wages but i just can't see a suitable solution that benefits both employees and small businesses.

Differentstarts · 29/10/2024 22:15

People on nmw can't afford to live so it's either companies pay more in wages or the government pay more in benefits. Labour are trying to reduce the benefit bill so they are passing the responsibility on to the employer instead of the tax payer.

cardibach · 29/10/2024 22:17

LewishamMumNow · 29/10/2024 21:22

The main reason governments (of any party) are so keen to increase NMW is because it lowers benefit payments. Most of those on NMW jobs claim UC. Increasing their hourly pay, lowers the benefits that are paid by the state. That is why it keeps happening. If those same governments actually cared about the lower paid they would increase UC entitlements by the same amount or inflation or anything really, but surprisingly enough, they don't do that.

Why should the tax payer subsidise private businesses by paying their wages?