To feel a bit harassed by charity worker

[Hardknocks]

Was on my way back from a meeting in London this evening, had to stop at the ticket machine to get my ticket a charity person came over to ask for a donation - I said I couldn’t afford it (I couldn’t), but I usually do give something. However this guy was so pushy, putting leaflets in my face, telling me he lost his brother to knife crime etc etc. He put £25 into his card reader and just kept saying ‘just tap your phone, tap your phone’. I politely asked him to move so that I could get past and through the train barrier but he said not until I tap.. so feeling completely intimidated I did.

I feel stupid, I couldn’t afford £25. I don’t begrudge giving to charity at all and I do where I can. AIBU to feel a bit upset about the whole thing.

I was in Farringdon again today and counted 10 people, a mix of Youth Works Union CIC and unknown (jackets had no logo or text) but they were the same purple and blue jackets as last week so I'd assume Uplifterz CIC and Uplifterz Union CIC again. They left me alone when I said no and I didn't see any particular harrassment, though they were on Farringdon station which they're not supposed to be (I took more photos / video).

Youth Works Union's website has amused me as it has 'copyright 2020' at the bottom but the domain was only registered on 17 June this year then the company was incorporated three days later on the 20th.

• The two Uplifterz CICs are not registered with the Fundraising Regulator (though they don't need to be in fact).
• None of the organisations 'chugging' need a permit from Islington Council to sell magazines - I have asked if there being a minimum of 9 people seems a bit much though (I think there should be a cap)
• I've not contacted the CIC yet though so need to get on with that.

It's quite fiddly as each of the organisations that might be responsible for reining them in (TfL, Islington Council. Fundraising Regulator, CIC Regulator, Police [Metropolitan or British Transport Police]) are frustratingly only responsible for one different aspect so it seems quite tough to get anywhere with the many CICs that seem to be popping up.

Jo

I’m back with my redemption story! I went back through Farringdon this afternoon and they tried and I hit them with ‘I was robbed by you last time it won’t happen again!’ And I stormed past

Yes girl! 🥰

Fairly certain the beggars get paid … tells you how much money the “charity” must make hourly to have 9 beggars, begging in the same place at the same time.

@Hardknocks yay! Well done. I bet that was cathartic.

I find that a swift 'fuck off and bother somebody who gives a shit' usually works. And when they trot out the 'don't you care' line, I always say no - doesn't alter the fact that I often do!.

Just wanted to clarify a few things because there’s quite a bit of misinformation.

Anyone soliciting donations from members of the public needs the landowners permission - in this case TFL and should have ID.

No means no, it contravenes charity fundraising regulations to block your path, or continue to bother you if you have declined,

these don’t sound like genuine collectors to me. If you believe they are fraudulent report to charity/CIC and police. Well run charities take this very seriously and will investigate if they were running any campaigns at this time.

however professional fundraisers or “chuggers” do legally have to give you a solicitation statement if you sign up which details how much they get paid.

yes they get paid. It’s a tough job but actually very cost effective for a charity to raise funds this way compared to TV or online often because people tend to support for a longer term. Usually this is via direct debit regular donations rather than one off. Most charities do one off collections around specific appeals as it’s quite hard to get permissions, especially on TFL property.

Chuggers or professional fundraisers are people. They don’t deserve to be assaulted or have equipment broken. Just say no. Be firm. If they continue tell them you’ll report or call BTP if they are proving a nuisance.

unfortunately there are instances of people scamming pretending to de from genuine organisations, a genuine collector will be happy to engage and answer questions. They are not allowed to pressure you if you feel they are, do NOT hand over card details as it’s highly likely they aren’t running a tight ship, they may be genuine but I’d guess not as most charities value their reputation above a £25 donation.

If you're the bold type and don't care what strangers think of you, a good technique is to tell them that you don't agree with the cause they're raising money for. It's harder for them to continue to pressure you to give money after that.

You'll probably come across (erroneously) as a horrible person, but if you don't mind what a stranger who you'll probably never see again thinks about you, then it's worth a try.

Actually I did a quick search, youth works CIC is registered in companies house to a flat, unusual, it is not an active CIC but there was one in Corby and Kettering. The website looks odd.

I would report this to the police personally @Hardknocks as I doubt it’s genuine. It may be that people have got hold of defunct IDs and jackets and are scamming. You’ve got photo evidence and your “donation” as evidence, hopefully you can get your money back.

Most large charities don’t allow branded items to be kept after a campaign by individuals for this reason, as it can mislead/be used fraudulently.

Please don’t think this is how charities generally behave because it isn’t, I commission direct dialogue agencies and would be horrified if anyone representing a charity behaved like this and would remove them from a campaign straight away.

@Hardknocks
Please push your bank again to refund that money, charity ppl like that reply on "social compliance" being in a rush , not want to "look tight"
I would report to the charity and see if I could go above them too.
Appalling behaviour from the charity collector who is probably on a bonus type pay scheme and definitely not volunteering their time because they care so much

The people at Farringdon are not charity workers / chuggers but CIC employees. All the CICs I've looked into have 'sales' or 'education' as their purpose and the two I asked the Fundraising Regulator about specifically (Uplifterz CIC and Uplifterz Union C.I.C.) are not registered with them (and do not actually need to be, for their stated purposes).

Earlier this week (Mon) I was asked by Uplifterz CIC if I wanted to make a donation - they shouldn't be asking that. There were only 5 CIC staff at Farringdon then (not all Uplifterz) it was very early in the afternoon so perhaps they swell their numbers at feeding time ;)

There's also Atoma who spoke to me last week. They're in the process (according to their website) from shifting from Atoma to Youth Works Union CIC (there's a mix of Atoma CIC, Youth Atoma Enterprise Ltd, Atoma Union CIC, Union Atoma Ltd - various different owners involved so may not all be related (some owners with same name plus or minus middle name).

It seems to be a confusing mess (perhaps by design) and I really don't feel I've quite got to grips with it ;) It surprises me that someone can easily create a new CIC even if their previous one was compulsorily struck off (this sounds bad though perhaps the wording is just procedural). Also no information about how the money is spent or how much has been raised needs to be made public within about two years of the CIC being incorporated, by which time if it's struck off that info never becomes public.

None of them have hassled me in particular which is good (for me) but not that helpful for gathering evidence but I've been really irritated watching them tell young women that they've dropped something in order to get them to stop and engage 😬

I also don't understand why there are allowed to be between 9 and 11 people there getting in the way of commuters and other visitors. Imagine 10 Big Issue sellers outside Farringon station catching up with commuters - they're allowed to sell magazines but not allowed to request donations so it seems a similar concept (from a regulation point of view).

Jo

The chuggers you're dealing with in Britain seem a lot more aggressive than the ones here in Australia I've encountered!

I've had the idiotic "You look like a friendly young lady" line from a bloke young enough to be my son. I just said "I'm neither" and kept walking. The ones planted outside supermarkets who do the I'm-so-bubbly "Hi!" just get a "Bye" and I don't even break stride. Or if they're pushier, "My dole doesn't stretch that far."

I have just come home via Farringdon this evening - my trains were delayed and I decided to exit the station and get a coffee. There were at least 6 of these guys, some in purple, some in blue, and they all approached me one by one "hey gorgeous, love your hair", next one "you look friendly", next one "hello my love, you look like a nice person", next one "you look like you've had a nice evening". This was literally one after the other. I told the first one "not interested", the second one "I'm really not friendly", the third one "you're not a very good judge", and by the 4th one I was on "fuck off and leave me alone", at which point two of them sort of ganged up on me, approached together and one said "no need to be rude, just say no thanks", the other one told me to "act my age", whatever that means. I said I didn't want to be approached by 4 or 5 men in a row, at night, on my own, and they needed to be fucking mindful of that. As I walked back into the station one of them shouted "is that a rotweiller or a pitbull?" and they all fell about laughing. I'm making a complaint right now to Thameslink.

@MagnificentTrousers if they were outside the station then Thameslink aren't the ones to complain to because they weren't on their property.
It will be whichever borough council Farringdon is in that you should complain to.
🙂

Good on you for making that complaint.

You just know these damned men wouldn't try that bullshit on other men.

They've replied telling me it's TfL's remit, so I've tweeted them - no doubt pissing into the wind, but I'll try.

@MagnificentTrousers unfortunately if they weren't inside the tube station it's not TfL either.
The land between the station will come under Islington Borough Council so if that's where they were then send your complaint to them (and do complain.... it's ridiculous this is still happening) 🙂

Good on you @Catsmere

They sound infuriating. As pp said, they wouldn’t be trying that shit with men. ‘No need to be rude, just say no thanks’ translates to ‘just smilingly play along like a good woman and be polite’.

Bullshit!

I was there tonight too. These people are so fucking irritating. I have already complained to Islington Council, TFL and the BTP. And yet, no one is doing anything. Grrr

Praise goes to @MagnificentTrousers , she's the one making the complaint - I was just the first one replying that they wouldn't pull this shit with men.

Heh. I'm likely to encounter some of these idiots at Coles later today. I'll be primed to give them shit for shit. 😈

I know this is an old but active thread, but if this happens again to anyone, take out your phone as asked.. and take a photo of him.
Ask his name and which charity he works for?
It will get his image out there if he is a scammer, or reported to his charity if not.
I hate men bullying women. 😠

This is just awful. What is the area MP like? Would it be worth contacting them?

And good on you @MagnificentTrousers for standing up for yourself.

I would report to police tbh. They literally mugged you.

Frustratingly they are very difficult to tackle as they fall in and out of various jurisdictions.

• They're not regulated by the Charity Commission (and don't need to be because they're not charities)
• They are regulated by the Community Interest Companies regulator but I don't know if they have very strong powers, and it seem easy enough to create a new company after an older one has been compulsorily struck off Companies House register
• They're not regulated by the Fundraising Regulator (and don't need to be, unless they want to raise funds). Selling magazines, which is generally what they claim to do, is different from fundraising. The FR will investigate CICs or charities however, whether they're regulated with them or not though (see Inside Success below).
• Islington Council permits magazines to be sold on the street. It would be handy if this required a licence but it's done with good intention in that they don't want to thwart people who want to sell political magazines, for example.
• TfL and the rail companies don't appear to have any jurisdiction on the plot of land currently being swarmed by the CICers (technically they're not 'chuggers').

I think in the interim the most helpful thing would be to have an upper limit on magazine-sellers at Farringdon Station. A maximum of 2 from any organisation AND a maximum of 4 CIC staff on the pavement overall, who must be wearing a coloured jacket. That would surely be quite easy to implement. There have previously been staff from both Uplifterz CIC and Uplifterz Union CIC so a maximum would make it harder for 'one' company to get around that.

Otherwise, as far as I can see they can continue indefinitely (with newly formed CICs as needed when old ones are struck off) because of the disjointed regulation which currently favours them.

It doesn't help that none of these new companies need to share their financial goings on for a couple of years, as far as I can see. It seems to be a bit of a wild west and I suppose I can't be too surprised that people will make the best of that.

CIC organisations I've met at Farringdon
Uplifterz CIC
Uplifterz Union C.I.C.
Atoma Youth Works
Youth Works Union
Inside Success
... one of the first two were the ones that harrassed OP but most of the regulatory action and investigations have been into Inside Success.

Fundraising Regulator's investigations into Inside Success
January 2024 | March 2023.

Mail Online article on Inside Success from earlier this year.

Jo