To feel a bit harassed by charity worker

[Hardknocks]

Was on my way back from a meeting in London this evening, had to stop at the ticket machine to get my ticket a charity person came over to ask for a donation - I said I couldn’t afford it (I couldn’t), but I usually do give something. However this guy was so pushy, putting leaflets in my face, telling me he lost his brother to knife crime etc etc. He put £25 into his card reader and just kept saying ‘just tap your phone, tap your phone’. I politely asked him to move so that I could get past and through the train barrier but he said not until I tap.. so feeling completely intimidated I did.

I feel stupid, I couldn’t afford £25. I don’t begrudge giving to charity at all and I do where I can. AIBU to feel a bit upset about the whole thing.

£25??? Heck, you need to report this.

Nothing comes up on Charity Commission or Companies House website for Uplifterz

they have a website, but no CIC number stated.
Sounds very dodgy - when I read the OP I thought he'd lined up a payment, but didn't realise that he'd actually persuaded you to tap your card or phone.

Definitely report to the police and the organisation
About

[email protected] the email address for complaints

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius ah yes - good point.
I wonder if after the OP put in her complaint they had been told not to be inside the station which was why they were outside a few days later when that photo was taken.

My usual response to chuggers is that I work in the sector, I don't donate to any charity unless I've read the accounts and understand the fundraising model.

My usual response is No, thank you and then ignore.

When I was there one on Friday of the 'chuggers' (or CICers?!) was inside the station so I asked a member of station staff if that was OK and he said 'no' and moved the guy on quickly - I didn't have to give him any background context, the staff member was completely on the ball about it. I suspect he's had to ask them before.

When I'm there again if I see any of them inside the station I'll tell them to move myself ;) I would have done so the first time but wasn't sure if they may have had permission or not.

@ThinWomansBrain There's Uplifterz CIC and Uplifterz Union C.I.C. - same operating address, different owners, incorporated in July and September this year. They're Community Interest Companies.

Jo

One was already in the Thameslink / Elizabeth (rail) side of the station when I arrived there on Friday (just happened not to be inside on that photo I took later). Most of them did stay outside on the bit between the two station entrances though. I think 11 in total (6 or 7 from Uplifterz though only 2 had named jackets, 4 from an unrelated organisation). Seems a bit excessive!

While I was lurking outside another (or the same) one walked in again but staff member spotted him independently and told him to move.

Jo

This is breach of the Fundraising Code:

https://www.fundraisingregulator.org.uk/code/specific-fundraising-methods/collecting-money-or-other-property

8.1.2.
You must avoid causing an obstruction, congestion and nuisance to the public. You must not deliberately block the path of members of the public.

8.4.19.
If you have approached a member of the public, you must meet the ‘three-step’ rule.
You must not take more than three steps alongside the person or to follow them, even if they ask you to.
If the member of the public has not come to a stop within the three steps allowed, you must end your attempt to talk to them.

You can complain here as well as raising it with the charity

https://www.fundraisingregulator.org.uk/code/using-code

@ItsAllSoBleak I think every chugger I have ever come across has broken those rules 🙁

@Needmorelego almost certainly in the past, but do have a look out for it - most reputable charities these days use better 'chugger firms' and do peel off after 3 steps. Not all admittedly but many.

there is less obstruction and less bad behaviour than there used to be I feel. very impressionistic though

An actual charity mugger . Report him. There should be cctv.

You must report this to the charity and the police. He effectively mugged you at the station.

Hope you’re doing OK!

Thanks everyone, I have reported them and to my bank but they haven’t given it back to me. I’m just taking it as an expensive lesson and to know better for next time!

For those just joining the thread I realised that they weren’t a charity, and they were definitely inside the station by the ticket machine because I was cornered. So next time I will be reporting to BTP and will hopefully be a bit braver.

I’m glad this thread has so much traction though and thank you to those who have taken a stand and also reported them. This is everything I needed after that happened 💝

I'm glad you're feeling a bit better @Hardknocks.

I popped back again today and counted 9 this time. I chatted to a few of them but made it clear I'd not be giving them any money. None of them seemed to know if they had a permit to be there and the station staff were fairly convinced they didn't have that so I'm going to ask Islington Council about it. The ones I saw today weren't aggressive, just unavoidable - they were from Uplifterz Union CIC and another one called something like Youth Action - all anti-knife crime. I also spoke to a member of staff in a coffee shop who said they're often there until 9pm and regularly want to drop off their bags in the shop and get shirty when they're told no.

Islington Council's website has information (I've not digested it yet) on street / market trading, which requires a permit. As these CICers are offering magazines for sale (as well as asking for donations) it might be that they need a permit to do that (they may have that in place of course).

Possibly they also need to be registered with the Fundraising Regulator to ask for donations (again, they might be but I've not yet asked) - I'm not too sure how it all 'hangs together' as they seem to fall between the various regulatory cracks.

• Not a charity so not regulated by the Charity Commission
• Possibly not regulated by the Fundraising Regulator unless the CIC requests it
• Not under the jurisdiction of Tfl (and presumably not Thameslink etc) as not on station property (except for when they are but they move when told to)
• Not sure if they fall within Islington Council's street traders remit or something else
• Not sure if there's a limit on the number that can be there (or if it's limited to X per company - in which case registering multiple companies seems sensible, to overcome that)
• Not sure if their behaviour outside the station is a British Transport Police thing (though I think it is for your experience OP as that happened inside the station) or a general Metropolitan Police thing
• They definitely seem to fall within the Regulator of Community Interest Companies though.

It does surprise me that no information about the company's finances will be made public for another couple of years (particularly as the owner of one of the Uplifterz companies had his previous company compulsorily struck off the register for (presumably) not filing records in time).

There was another thread on here about knife-crime 'chuggers' which pointed me to this article about Inside Success (another anti-knife-crime CIC) - an interesting read https://docere.uk/articles/the-london-knife-crime-activists (from 3 Nov 2022).

The Fundraising Regulator has completed two investigations into Inside Success and is clearly unimpressed with them but other than a few magistrates' fines here and there I'm not sure much has changed.
January 2024 | March 2023.

There were breaches but also the Fundraising Regulator may be a bit underpowered, as discussed in this debate / question in the House of Lords in March 2024 "To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the adequacy of the powers and resources of the Regulator of Community Interest Companies" - Inside Success mentioned.

Jo

@JoBrodie you are my personal hero.

It’s genuinely quite disconcerting that so many people can stand around asking for money with seemingly no regulations in place, and with no real idea of where that money is even going to. Also, 9 of them!

Had it with a chugger in my home town "collecting for disabled children" we said we have enough of our own thanks kept walking "SO YOU DONT CARE ABOUT DISABLED CHILDREN THEN" really loud as we walked past with our disabled children one (almost adult) disabled child screamed back "FUCK NO!" they were refused permission to return to the town due to aggressive behaviour

"SO YOU DONT CARE ABOUT ..... THEN" must be a standard line in the chugger training manual.

I had a smug older guy say similar to me in a supermarket foyer a while back after I politely said no thanks when he tried to stop me. Didn't shout loudly but he said a very passive aggressive 'no, its ok if you don't care about sick kids'. I'll be ready for it next time including complaining to the store and charity.

@TheWeeDonkeyFella I remember reading once in a paper that was either a journalist or an interview with an actor or similar where they were approached by a chuggers for a cancer charity. They got the "don't you care about children with cancer" comment - only their actual child was being treated for cancer and the person was en route to the hospital to be with them.
They totally let rip at the chugger. Good on them.

Imagine saying that to the wrong person on the wrong day@nomorelego! Hope they got the blasting they deserved, but that's one of the issues isn't it , they have no idea what is going on in anyone's life.

I'm glad the OP started the thread, sorry for her losing £25 she can't afford and I could imagine the same happening to my younger self, but hopefully many of us reading will have more of a plan now if harassed by chuggers.

Just to be clear - Uplifters CIC is a limited company. So you weren’t bullied into donating for a charity, it was a company extorting money from commuters. TfL and of course the company need to be held responsible for this - I see there is already one or two negative reviews on the Uplifterz Google page under reviews. Their behaviour is disgusting,

TfL and their staff need to grow a pair too and make sure these people are moved out of the ticket hall!

I've had the "you don't care" line on my own doorstep at 9pm ....

"So you don't care about children dying@"

I was so incensed I said "no really" and shut the door.

(Obviousy I do care)

Afternoon all

I've now emailed / filed a report / blethered at Islington Council (to ask if they need a council permit etc), British Transport Police (to see if this falls in their remit) and the Fundraising Regulator (to find out if any of the organisations are also registered with them).

My line of bleating is more to do with there being an awful lot of them haranguing the public and do they have a permit for this (or need one) - more than about the harrassment (as I've not personally witnessed it) though I've referenced it of course.

Still to do (later in the week): Regulator of the Community Interest Companies, possibly Metropolitan Police (to find out about street collection licences), possibly Trading Standards too - though I think I'd need to have actual evidence of wrongdoing myself rather than "this seems a bit iffy, what do you think?".

Jo

@JoBrodie amazing work. Do please add to the bad Google reviews if you feel up to it - I've done so. It'll really make a difference to anyone looking them up.

Btw @JoBrodie looking at this, the FR is already investigating and working with multiple other authorities. So please don't exhaust yourself :) Maybe best to contact the FR and ask how you/us on MN can support this?

"We are continuing to work with relevant licensing and enforcement bodies and other interested parties"
"we convened a meeting of several stakeholders including the Office of the Regulator of Community Interest Companies, local authorities, the Metropolitan Police, City of London Police, British Transport Police and the Chartered Institute of Fundraising, who have also received public concerns and complaints about ISU’s practises"
https://www.fundraisingregulator.org.uk/more-from-us/resources/inside-success-union-cic-january-2024

Hi @Agapornis - I'm wary of writing anything negative on Google because I've not had any negative interactions with the Uplifterz CIC or Uplifterz Union CIC (or the Youth Action one) myself. I think it wouldn't be fair for me to say much about them. They tried to talk to me but didn't harass me when I made it clear I wasn't interested.

The Fundraising Regulator link is about Inside Success CIC which is an older organisation that has been investigated a couple of times and found in breach. The two Uplifterz CIC ones are much newer and were only incorporated a few months ago. It's certainly possible that the FR is familiar with the Uplifterz-es, but possibly only if the CICs have contacted them to register to be able to fundraise (I think that's how it works, not 100% sure).

Jo