SEN betweeners

[sunshine244]

I've seen a few good posts on social media recently about the concept of 'SEN betweeners' - children that can't cope with mainstream school but aren't eligible for/suitable for established special needs schools.

I have an AuDHD child that fits this category. Huge anxiety and sensory overload led to burnout and school refusal. There are a lot of adaptations in place but ultimately mainstream is too loud, busy and overwhelming. But the special needs schools locally aren't suitable either as they are aimed at children with severe physical and learning disabilities. My child wouldn't get a place anyway.

Aibu to think that mainstream just isn't suitable for some children and that there needs to be a middle option of some sort? I don't think it's good for anyone when there are children struggling so badly in mainstream.

Of course it would be helpful if there were schools that would cater for a range of specific needs and that children with additional needs would all be able to go to one that catered best for their needs.

The SEND budget is £10 billion per year. EHCP provision for children with ASD and co morbid conditions has risen from 50,000 in 2015 to 150,000 in 2023. EHCP provision for S&LT and EBSD has doubled since 2015. EHCP provision for moderate and severe learning difficulties has seen little change in numbers since 2015.

No one wants to see any child struggling in mainstream, or struggling in any provision that isn’t right for them, but the financial situation is dire. I know many parents are distraught about the situation and many children are poorly served.

My DiL teaches in a special school that caters so well for its pupils, that they, on the whole, make excellent progress. But they have a whole raft of specialists to support them and small classes and excellent pupil/ adult ratios. Would they were all like that?

I think if money was spent more sensibly on supporting children with SEN at an early stage it would save loads longer term.

For example there's a child in our school on 1:1 support due to mainstream not being suitable. In a more supportive setting I'm sure they'd cope in a small group.

Resources are currently being wasted trying to push children into mainstream environments that don't suit them.

Yep, there needs to be be the support for our children at the beginning of their education to support them so they don't crash and burn by the end of primary.

Yeah we're in a similar position OP. Mainstream secondary has over 1700 pupils. There are some smaller schools but they have less support. No chance of special school at this stage/ no appropriate special school anyway for academic but very anxious AuDHD kid.

This is exactly the position my DCs are in. I am beggaring myself to have them in private. It's very small, not academically selective and prioritises all round education. It's just not available in state.

I know for a fact my dd will not cope when it comes to high school, she just about copes now In a small primary with lots off adjustments just to get her in. Senco has recently applied for ehcp if its rejected I honestly don't know what we will do for high school.

Yes. My 10 year old is bright, working at greater depth in maths but with an emotional age of 3. Special school wasn't right for him but he is struggling a lot in mainstream and I am dreading secondary school.

My 11 year old with moderate learning disabilities is thriving in mainstream secondary apart from a few fairly minor issues so it does work for some children.

I have an AuDHD son in Y10; his EHCP has just been issued, but will make very little difference in school. He just about copes and his school are generally very supportive.
I’m also SLT in a secondary school. I’d say that the current school curriculum is inappropriate for about 70% of students, and this is in part the reason for the massive rise in SEN students. Gove’s obsession with an academic curriculum, combined with constant scrutiny and accountability from Ofsted means that schools are little more than exam factories which need strict behaviour regimes which really don’t suit not only SEN students, but lots of others too.
There’s a curriculum review under way at the moment which although will be too late for my son I hope will mean a more inclusive curriculum which will work better for all in the future.

Mainstream schools have got much bigger and more rigid, more pressured and more complex since I was at school. They are not great for a lot of children, but particularly neurodiverse children.

I'd like more emphasis on early identification of ASD/ADHD in girls and then the option of smaller, more supportive provision for them, probably from year 5. More like a secondary school education on a primary school scale. It would be more appropriate for a lot of children and avoid EBSA or an EHCP and need for specialist provison - it would also massively reduce the incidence of poor mental health and pressure on CAHMS.

@Itsrainingatlast , it's good to hear from the horse's mouth, as it were, that there are teachers who also think that school is currently unsuitable for a lot of kids (and not just SEN ones).

I also have a 'SEN betweener' and I'm pretty sure she would cope fine if she went to my totally ordinary school (30+ years ago).

I do hope the change in curriculum helps - althought too late for mine too.

It isn't just school, it can be social activities too.

My DD struggles with kids her own age, but isn't 'bad enough' (for want of a better term) for the various SEN schemes.

You are not being unreasonable OP. My children fell into this category though their mainstream school made no attempt to make adjustments for them. Fortunately we found a school which specialised in autism/moderate learning difficulties and my son did better there. For my daughter, there was no alternative and I had to home educate her as she was too unwell for secondary school due to her experiences at primary. It took years for my dtr to recover but she is now doing well at college though we are still adjusting to the impact of those days. The worst thing is seeing her miss out on opportunities that other young people take for granted:-(

We struggled to find a school for DS that was suitable for ND kids (low demand, small classes) but not catering predominantly for children with LD’s. It’s a common problem with autistic/ADHD kids who are not lagging behind their peers, except perhaps in social and communication areas. These schools do exist, it’s just that LA’s don’t want to fund the places!

Getting DS in to the school nearly broke me, but the LA was forced to pay. No judgment on parents who can’t or won’t take them on, ofc.

OP YANBU, I totally agree.

My DS is in year 9, recently diagnosed as AuADHD. Luckily he copes most days, but it's heartbreaking to hear of so many who don't.
I barely coped at school 30 years ago (I'm likely ND too). It makes me so sad and angry that we're treating our young people like this and basically creating a strict, one size fits all exam factory approach.

I really hope this curriculum review helps, though like a PP said, too late for some of our kids.

We were in a similar position but I managed to get my dd into specialist provision school. Very small school for children with a diagnosis of ASD and with social and emotional needs.

I looked at so many school for my dd. Every single one was more aimed at children with behavioural problems. My dd just needed a smaller class size and some emotional support. Her mental health was very bad as she had hit burnout in mainstream and then tried to take her life.

So anyway we got the placement but the draw backs are that they don't study a huge range of subjects. Just the basics really. They don't push pupils to do well academically but rather focus on their social skills and mental health. Shes in her final year and will leave with the five GCSE's she will need to go to college (if she can cope, I'm ready for the next challenge) but didn't get to study the GCSEs that she could of in mainstream.

The schools been amazing for her. But the government decided that they were going to close the school. There was lots of protests, meetings etc and they finally decided to keep the school open but it had to increase in size to be sustainable. So this year it's upped its intake for a third. And is expected to double that next year. Completely taking away the reason it was a great ASD provision, the small class sizes, the small not busy calm environment they need.

I understand that money doesn't grow on trees but without this school I know my dd wouldn't be in the position she's in now. And the same goes for her friends there.

The local authority pushed my dd to try mainstream secondary and it nearly ended up taking her life. Because it's cheaper.

But I know there's not a bottom less put available for sen education but I think the whole thing needs a total overhaul.

Agree with pps that the National Curriculum 2014 is not fit for purpose and everyone suffers as a result. Even those who can access it (the upper end of middle ability and generally in primary the older children in the year, good luck if you're summer born and not naturally brighter than average) are impacted by those who, through no fault of their own, can't.

As well as children with autism and ADHD, inclusion in mainstream often fails those with Cognition and Learning needs. If you can't read and write 3 and 4 letter words by KS2, usually your needs realistically can't be best met in mainstream and yet we expect these children to somehow catch up when the rest of the class are learning about the past continuous tense or the passive voice.

This is us. There is an amazing secondary school for autistic boys near us with small classes, support with semh etc but dcs need an ehcp to get in and school say there’s not enough evidence to apply.

Mine is now a young adult, but he similarly was unsuited to mainstream but too able for special school. He was lucky enough to go to a mainstream secondary with an attached autism unit, and fairly free flow between the two so that he could spend as much or as little time as needed in the supported setting.

It was a new venture when he started, and became somewhat a victim of its own success by the time he left. Seven autistic boys in one quiet room was ok. Twenty-four autistic boys (and one girl) in one room was less so.

I asked at the initial meeting how many children they felt would benefit from the unit. Around 250, they said. But we can only take a few. The hope was that other local schools would see the outcome and do the same. (They didn't.)

Totally agree. When I started teaching we could offer applied science GCSE, not have all kids take English Literature, more vocational courses. We could do social skills work and support more students with SEN through. As you say, changes in curriculum mean this is much much harder.

Yeah school said the same to me. So I applied by myself and we got her ehcp no problems. Sendias were a great source of support and information through the process. Give it a go you've nothing to lose.

If it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school, have you considered EOTAS/EOTIS via an EHCP?

Some who find a large state mainstream overwhelming find a smaller, nurturing independent mainstream suitable. This can be funded via an EHCP if it is required.

Some find attending an AP 1, 2 or 3 days a week enables them to cope in mainstream school the rest of the week.

It’s also why many travel long distances to special schools rather than only looking locally.

The answer is to build more schools and make them all smaller and quieter with smaller class sizes and a lower teacher/TA/pupil ratio as it would benefit everyone. Treat pupils as individuals and get to know them all well. No ridiculous uniform rules and detentions for forgetting your ruler. The whole of society would benefit. DD2 was fine with primary school - 2 classes per year group, teacher plus 1 TA per class of 25/26. Not fine and never got on with secondary school of 1,200 pupils. I don't know why it is that state secondary schools have to be massive impersonal silos and are just something to be endured rather than actually providing a supportive, nurturing environment. Rather than a cross between the Hunger Games, Hogwarts under Professor Umbridge and Lord of the Flies, it's ridiculous.

YaNBU. Blame the 1981 Inclusion Act. There used to be loads of special schools for differing levels of need. The 'right' to mainstream education led to the closure of so many schools for those children with less extreme needs. But it didn't consider what was best for the children.

Secondary schools have to be bigger or teachers would have to move around between schools which would be a timetabling nightmare. In many subjects, children only have 1 or 2 lessons a week. You couldn't fill a timetable in those subjects in a 1 or 2 form entry school, even if the department only had 1 teacher in it. The huge 1500+ pupil ones do seem uneccesary though, I agree. I think 600- 1000 pupil range is workable and realistic.

Not sure if this has been said but in my part of London we have what's called an ARP (Additional Resource Provision).

It's a class, set in a mainstream school, just for kids with autism. Class size is small, with many support staff.

Kids get to interact with the kids in the mainstream classes if they want/if it will help.

I think this is what youre referring to. Could you see whether theres something like that near you?

I'd say that there are several schools with an arp in the area. And then a couple of established special needs schools for kids with a range of severe needs (which are FANTASTIC)

My dd wasn't severe enough to attend one of the special needs schools but the ARP was perfect.

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