SEN betweeners

[sunshine244]

I've seen a few good posts on social media recently about the concept of 'SEN betweeners' - children that can't cope with mainstream school but aren't eligible for/suitable for established special needs schools.

I have an AuDHD child that fits this category. Huge anxiety and sensory overload led to burnout and school refusal. There are a lot of adaptations in place but ultimately mainstream is too loud, busy and overwhelming. But the special needs schools locally aren't suitable either as they are aimed at children with severe physical and learning disabilities. My child wouldn't get a place anyway.

Aibu to think that mainstream just isn't suitable for some children and that there needs to be a middle option of some sort? I don't think it's good for anyone when there are children struggling so badly in mainstream.

They logistically have to be bigger than primary schools, however my parents secondary schools in the 70s only had around 400-500 pupils. Think mine had about 1000. My kids' school has 1700 + and keeps being asked to add extra classes. It's excessive isn't it!

I didn't know about this. I feel like there was such a stigma against special schools that nobody was worried about such a decision, whereas now, there's such a need for them 🥺

Oh yes, I do believe it was done with good intentions. But I think it was the wrong decision.

Exactly. My child has cost this country a fortune as they wouldn't support her when little. Even right down to the police who have had to visit when she ran off and social services when she was suicidal.

I've seen this with loads of people. My son has "severe" autism and we still had to go to panel to get specialist place at autism school, I have no clue what you do when you're child isn't coping but they are fully verbal etc. You're right there is just zero provision for this.

This is exactly why I ended up home educating one of my DC. ASD, very well behaved and ok academically so considered not appropriate for a special school, but could not cope at all with large noisy environments. They made it through primary school, barely, but could not cope with a mainsteam high school at all even with support. We had to pull them out to home educate after one term of mainstream high school, their mental health was really suffering. No school near us had capacity in an attached autism unit either, they were massively over subscribed.

My DC thrived being home educated. Has managed to gain some GCSE's and is now happily settled at college.

Most of the families we met through the home ed network were in the same situation. I know some people home educate through choice, but I didn't, nor did at least 60% of the families we met, they were all forced into it by lack of appropriate schools for neurodiverse children.

In my county they have just started removing funding for children who are at independent special secondary schools. It's awful, for parents who have usually had to go to tribunal and have a child settled.

On the other hand these placements cost 50-100 thousand a year. Really the solution is for the LEA to have built a school themselves!

I completely agree op, I think this is one of the reasons for the sudden increase in children being homeschooled/home educated too, which can be a great experience for some, not so great for others, and really if the children who needed early intervention and support from the get go, could probably manage to a better degree than currently. Unfortunately it just seems like the funding isn't there, but like you say, paying for multiple 121 staff member for a child who isn't coping in a mainstream environment could, could be money better spent for small groups of children to thrive in a more accommodating establishment. There's a "school" near us for children who can't cope with mainstream, and they seem to do remarkably well considering, working in small groups without all the pressure, red tape, and expectations that go with mainstream schooling. However this is government funded and spaces are extremely limited and hard to obtain. By the time the children are allowed to attend, they have usually been removed from multiple schools, have suffered alot of trauma around education, and are in turn, damaged, and unlikely to achieve what they could have had early intervention and placement outside of mainstream been allowed.

There are secondaries who manage to make a 2 form entry work. For example, the XP chain. Whether you like that type of school or not is, of course, another matter.

If the school is named in section I and the LA is refusing to fund the fees or SEP, the parents should send a pre-action letter then look at JR if necessary.

Where I live this kind of provision is called an enhanced resource base, the principle is the same though. There are schools throughout the city with specialist provision for a particular need (the ones I know of off the top of my head are for autism, hearing impairment, visual impairment and physical disability), at both primary and secondary level.

I have an SEN betweener. I am dreading the move to secondary. I can't afford private so I'm living hand to mouth to afford tutoring for grammar. They're smashing the maths past papers at 100% with 12 months to go and working well on target for 95% on the rest.

Its not fair to put everyone under such strain. The money would be so much better spent on having fun but the local high schools, I know for a fact will not cater to her needs if her small primary can't. She can cope in a pure academic setting but has zero skills in managing people or emotions. She cries at school most days due to noise. Again, no chance of school funding and EHCP. All I want is for her to go to school and not feel like crying for most of it.

I have said YABU but only because schools do exist for children like this. Most commonly as mainstream 'units' they are completely separate from the main school but have very small class sizes and can borrow teachers/facilities etc from the main school. They are typically suitable for average and high achievers with ASD etc. They also exist as specialist independent standalone SEND schools.

However I totally understand how bloody hard it is and that there aren't enough of these types of spaces. Our battle wasn't getting an EHCP - our son very obviously wasn't coping at all in mainstream - it was finding a send school with space, that the council was willing to pay for. It took years and the emotional and financial cost lingers.

Units/bases/provisions/cabins (whatever ARPs are called in that area) aren’t suitable for all. They don’t meet the needs of many DC who find a secondary environment overwhelming.

An increasing number of DC have EOTAS/EOTIS because it is inappropriate for provision to be made in school (mainstream, specialist, state, independent, NMSS, ARP…)

She cries at school most days

@SnackSnack ignore anyone who has told you DD has no chance of getting an EHCP. Request an EHCNA and appeal if the LA refuse to assess or refuse to issue.

I’ve always said there needs to be an in between option. So many in this position and parents are having to home school or their poor child suffers and struggles in mainstream.

Adding my DD can't cope in a mainstream school but isn't severe enough for a specialist school. And EHCP would likely be rejected first time round and on average is taking 2-3 years.
We are currently home ed'ing in the hope she can go to a nearby independent school which has a lot of neurodiverse children which is smaller, less rigid and with better pastoral care. If she can't cope there or I lose my job we are screwed.
There are tons of children like her who are being home educated or whose parents are trying to afford private school.

We have a few units like that in my LA. At the start they were autism bases. But over a few years they have changed to become general ASN units and filled with kids with much more complex needs.

Apparently the reason is that more children with very complex needs are surviving due to medical intervention. This means the school we have locally for complex disabilities is full and overflow kids are going to the ASN units. Meaning there's now no space for what they were originally intended for.

"In my county they have just started removing funding for children who are at independent special secondary schools"

My county have a new 'policy' of pulling day pupils from 16 -19 provision in independent special schools to either go to mainstream colleges or have "bespoke packages" of EOTAS.

Yep, this is us and DD, who has ASD and co-morbid mental health problems, mainstream secondary was a disaster, small independent didn't work out either, now trying home ed reluctantly because we're being offered absolutely nothing by the education authority (or the health service but that's a different thread).

My DS was overwhelmed by mainstream but has done well in an ARP (additionally resourced provision). Initially he spent half the day supported in the mainstream class, which he could just about manage for this time, then half the day in a smaller SEN class of 6-8, with more flexibility aproch. Now he's older he's increased to more like 80% in mainstream class, but if he hadn't have been ready for that could have stayed 50/50.

Is there anything like that in your area?

@EndlessLight Thanks. Do I email SENCO for this and how long will it take. I only have 12 months before applying to high school.

This is three of my dcs. One now out of school completely (but have now worked on a v reduced time table to see if it works. My eldest is making their way through sixth form on about 80% attendance but missed a year of her GCSEs.

i also work in various schools. It’s not just money, it is honestly a huge change in attitude/knowledge that is required. I frequently hear comments from teachers -‘they shouldn’t fidget, they should make eye contact - they are rude. Lots is low level sanctions that end up becoming quite major issues/barriers to education. Schools know they should make reasonable adjustments, but they just don’t. I would love to see decent ARPs that would allow some active learning for teens with adhd that could let them have proper movement breaks (not three minutes!) and not have to sit still, make eye contact etc etc. all ARPs are not created equal unfortunately.

Successive education ministers think reform is the answer. It is not. A lot of improvements cost nothing, but the currently legislative framework, which is amazing, just need to be adequately funded. I think acadamisation also has a lot to answer for.

@SnackSnack IPSEA has a model letter you can use to request an EHCNA from the LA. If you don’t have to appeal, the statutory timescales is 20 weeks. LAs often think they can breach the timescales and take a lot longer, but you don’t have to accept that. You can force the LA to act via JR if necessary. However, many do have to appeal, sometimes more than once, and appeals are taking a long time, so you shouldn’t delay.

@Sheeparelooseagain anyone whose LA is removing DC from placements to give EOTAS/EOTIS packages where it isn’t inappropriate for the provision to be made in a school or college should look at JR. EOTAS/EOTIS under section 61 of the Children and Families Act 2014 is only for where it is inappropriate for the provision to be made in a school or post 16 institution.

Or parents could play the LA at their own game and appeal for a comprehensive EOTAS package which would be more expensive than the independent SS.

@NImumconfused assuming from your username you are in NI, have you spoken to SENAC? If you haven’t requested a Statutory Assessment, do that. If you have but the EA has refused, have you appealed and requested an expedited hearing based on the fact DD is not in school?

Secondary schools have to be bigger or teachers would have to move around between schools which would be a timetabling nightmare.

Surely some teachers could and would actually want to work part time? Private schools seem to manage with a smaller number of pupils and small class sizes. Or teachers could teach at two different neighbouring schools.

I think a middle school or junior high system going up and including Y8/Y9 would be best. 14/15+ more could cope with a larger setting, but say 500-800 would be preferable. I'd also say to scrap GCSEs but from Y10+ they go to further education college and can do say up to 5 vocational or academic subjects or a mixture, leading to a qualification at 18- sort of an IB type idea.