To keep lying about Father Christmas?

[Wimblmum]

Advice please ladies - DS 8 bas over the last couple of months been coming to me, eyes wet, saying 'is father christmas real?!' When I give teeny bits of truth like 'it not real that he can hear your secret wishes' (a problem we had last year was he 'secretly asked FC to bring mummy something'!) he burst into full-on floods of tears and wails 'so he's not reeeeeal?!' and the only way I've been able to console him is to then reinforce other bits of the fantasy, e.g. that we have to send FC letters to say what we're wishing for...

Last night he again full of tears said 'so it's not you delivering the presents???' I tried to distract with 'don't we all enjoy the idea of magic' but he was insistent and said 'do you deliver the presents???' and, justified by the fact that I don't - mainly it's amazon - I said no I don't deliver them. Again he looked so relieved.

I never had this with his big sister - she stopped believing in a nice, gentle, mainly unspoken, way - and she now helps maintain the magic, with moving the elves etc. But DS is genuinely so upset about it all - I think he loves the ideas so much and believed so completely, he genuinely doesn't want to be told we've all just been telling him a big fat lie.

Any experience of this and/ or advice on how to help him through without him feeling so dissonant and lied to? Genuinely struggling to work out what's best - I (stupidly) never expected him to get so emotionally attached to the whole thing!

If he's not ready to hear the truth yet, then keep pretending he's real! He's only 8, it's f
absolutely fine!

I told my oldest the truth when he was a similar age because he asked, and he handled it fine but literally a month or two later forgot all.about the conversation and was back to believing! He's nearly 13 now and still plays along but clearly knows it's all a lie!

My youngest is 10. There was a never a time he asked and I have never told him, but he seems to have figured out Santa isn't real. However, he plays along and I play along!

So in our house now it's like an open secret! We all pretend Santa is real, youngest occasionally actually believes it I think, but largely they both know!

My mum never told us even on her death bed when I was in my 40s! Clearly I'd figured it by then!!!! but I thought it was kind of sweet that she always put on a 'ho ho ho' and denied being the present buyer even into adulthood!! 😉

You respond with "what do you think?" Then they reinforce their own wishes or not.

My 2 are properly grown up but when they come home for Christmas I still wait until they've gone to bed to put their stockings outside their doors!

I told mine the 'real' story. That he was called Christopher, and he was a woodcutter many years ago. Over the year, he would carve toys out of wood and deliver them to children around the nearest village. Then obviously the media made him bigger and fancier as the years went by. Think of the family, The Santa Claus at the very beginning 😃 It helped when they were younger and still wanted to believe in the magic some how.

TBH I really don’t like the word ‘lying’ in this context. IMO it’s a well intentioned, utterly benign fib for young children, when the excitement of FC coming is huge.

For the OP, at coming up to 9 or 10 (forget which) my dd1 told me in very matter of fact tones that she knew FC was me and daddy, so I might as well admit it.

So I did, while exhorting her not to tell dd2 or any other children who still believed.
Many years later - she was early 20s - she told me she’d been dying for me to deny it, so she could go on believing a little longer! 🙁
I still so wish I had!

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

Totally agree. I should have put ‘lied’ to indicate that I was referring to the people who dislike the tradition because it is ‘lying’ to our children. My DS did not feel lied to. He saw it was all to keep the magic going and we phrased it that DH and I were Father Christmas, so he is real.

To me it’s akin to what are called ‘love lies’ in the case of dementia. Why tell the person, ‘No, you’re never going home again!’ when you can keep them reasonably happy with, ‘We’ll, maybe when the doctor thinks you’re well enough,’ - even though the house has already been sold to pay care home fees. And when you know they’re going to forget whatever you say within half a minute anyway….

If he's getting this upset thrn tell him the truth but make sure he knows not to ruin it for others.

When they are actively asking you "is this real?", it's time to tell them the truth.

I say he only comes to children who've been good all year, so he only visits a couple as children can't be good all year

Last night he again full of tears said 'so it's not you delivering the presents???' I tried to distract with 'don't we all enjoy the idea of magic' but he was insistent and said 'do you deliver the presents???' and, justified by the fact that I don't - mainly it's amazon - I said no I don't deliver them. Again he looked so relieved.

I do think from an eight year old's perspective, this is you not telling him the truth. You're being literal and think "I'm not Amazon, it's Amazon who are delivering" is being truthful but he's asking you if you are responsible for the presents and you've said No. This is how he will see it, I'm sure. He won't be able to discern you're being literal about the delivery only.

I couldn't lie to my child when he asked directly "Is it the parents?" You want to keep the magic alive, they desperately want FC to be real, so you've fudged it. I'd be worried that you've just postponed his fears (there's probably another child at school saying Santa isn't real) and he'll have to go through this again.

Wow.

"Yes, there actually is a very special man who gives wonderful gifts crafted by elves in a secret grotto at the North Pole and some children are worthy of his incredible benevolence as he flies around the world on his magical sleigh delivering presents, but you are not."

"Enjoy your satsuma."

8 is the age that I found out Santa wasn’t real. I feel that was the age when children really start questioning it, discussing it in the playground and poking holes in the “logic” of it. I remember we were doing Comic Relief and things, and a few of us started asking “why can’t the starving kids in Ethiopia get food from Santa” and it all snowballs from there.

If a child asks if it’s real at this age, I think you make a fool out of them by saying it is. If there’s a discussion in the playground and he’s arguing “but my mum told me yesterday it’s definitely real”, he’s going to feel silly and embarrassed.

We phrased it that Father Christmas only comes to people who want him to. When you don't want him to come anymore then parents buy the gifts. They just had to let us know. This worked for us because they didn't face the fear of not getting presents and never had to outright ask until they were 100% ready

I think to call it a benign fib when they are 3/4 is fine , the OP outright lied to her 8 yr old
said 'do you deliver the presents???' and, justified by the fact that I don't - mainly it's amazon - I said no I don't deliver them .
That is the point you tell the truth

This is precisely why we didn’t start any of this nonsense in the first place!

DD had worked out it was impossible by about 6 anyway and then proved it after watching some Brian Cox documentaries at 7.

Neither DH nor I saw any magic whatsoever in creating a lie we’d then have to admit later.

DS9 started quizzing me on this last week. He's 10 in December so think we did well to keep it going this long! He didn't seem too bothered when I told him it was me and now calls me 'Newgold Clause' 😂. I've said nothing will change; he will still have a sack with presents so he's happy! I am secretly a little bit gutted but it was going to happen at some point.

I think there is a danger if it gets to another Christmas with him believing in FC and other children at school find out he does, then teasing or worse could happen. The pain now may be worth it and save worse pain in future.

I think sometimes they are old enough to query it but at the same time they still want to believe. It's tricky when they ask very directly and won't be fobbed off. I went with "I'm not going to answer that, but it's all part of the magic of Christmas". Basically implying, do you really want me to answer truthfully? Mine seemed happy to leave it then, as I think they knew the answer but wanted to pretend a bit longer.

However if he is still angry/upset and insisting on knowing the truth, I guess I would tell him. Perhaps in one of the nice ways suggested on this thread e.g. being part of the magic game for younger children.

The way society is these days, in ten years time the kid will come back and sue you for deception, trauma, emotional damage...

Honestly, I would have a big conversation with him about it now. Make it clear that you weren’t lying, you were pretending. Pretending is fun. Try to think of other things you have pretended with him over the year - pretending to be animals or whatever. You pretend to ask Father Christmas to come and bring presents because it’s fun! Some of them do get delivered by postmen and then it’s fun to pretend that’s from Father Christmas. Would he like to carry on pretending or not?

If you just carry on at this point, I really think you risk having serious trust issues later.

How did your daughter work out it was impossible if you had never started the " nonsense" as you call it in the first place?

Tell him the truth. He's at the age when they stop believing

Because while we didn’t do it at home l, she heard plenty of it from everywhere else she went. Nursery, school, grandparents, random strangers in shops and cafes……..

We had big FC issues about a month ago, where DD (now just 10) was full on crying demanding to know whether it was all a lie but you could see she was not really wanting to be told the truth. I tried the whole 'what do you believe?' and 'you can believe whatever you want to' line but it didn't go very well. I probably would have just ripped the plaster off at that point if it wasn't for DH, who held firm to FC is real. Surprisingly, after 3hrs of real upset she went to bed, and has never mentioned again. I'm quite glad now that I didn't fully tell her but left a little gap for her to still believe on some level. I feel like from her upset level and her current interest in all things magic, telling her the truth would have crushed her. But i will be a bit relieved if this year is kind of a 'processing' year.