Is going to be office 3 times a week going to change my situation?

[itakemy]

A few months ago, I was suffering from burnout.

I have two kids, 2 and 4 and a husband who leaves for work before they get up and gets back after they go to bed.

His job is physical and he's self employed so can't really change his schedule.

I was working full time in a demanding role, but from home. Apart from needing to travel abroad for a few nights, once every couple of months.

It was hard going and the balance was totally off, as even at weekends I would always give him a lie in and pander to him. He gets pretty unhappy / grumpy and his moods really affect me. So I would spend a lot of my weekends trying to give him space to do stuff and take the kids out on my own so he could just chill and not be as unhappy.

Needless to say, it didn't result in him being happier and made me pretty resentful. He never looks out for me in the same way.

Anyhow. The last few months have been interesting. Husband has realised just how much stuff I was paying for that he had no idea really and has been pretty stressed about paying for it all himself. He earns very well and is able to put a sizeable amount in savings every month, that he uses to invest.

In any case, it's time for me to go back to work. I've found a position which needs me in office, three days a week. Husband and I have had many many conversations which all centre around him doing more and being there more when he is actually here. Like doing the laundry, batch cooking at weekends. It can't all be left to me. I won't be here for a lot of the week, like I used to be.

I'm worried that his needs will still ' trump ' mine and I'll be called ' a nag ' when I complain. He'll argue his work is more physical, he's out of the house 5 days and always on his feet. Whereas I'm only out of the house for 3 days and for less. I am worried nothing is going to change and we will just fight a lot and I'll be even more stressed than before because now I also have to attend to an office, as well as do the school run and dinner and bed time alone every day.

How can I get out of the rut of being called a nag and all these arguments about him having a more intense schedule than me? I don't want to go back into that situation. I'm worried.

He needs to divert some of his savings pot to pay for help in the house - get a cleaner at least, someone who'll stay and do the laundry as well and the workload will be more manageable. I don't know any men who'd be into batch cooking but he can still put fish fingers in the oven at the weekend for the children's tea. Your resentment is justified but shouldn't be aimed at him just at the system you've both allowed to develop. Bathing and putting children to bed is something that should be enjoyed and not dreaded and shouldn't, imo, be outsourced but you could pay someone to collect them from childcare and give them their tea a couple of times a week? Most working parents do chores at the weekend but it's finding a divide that works for all of you.

So if he can’t get home in time to cook / sort the kids for bed you will have to get a nanny. Sounds to me like he won’t step up no, like many men they think their jobs are more important / tiring and they can’t possibly look after their own kids when they get home. I’d take this job anyway and out source what you can. If he can’t pitch in with his share of housework in the evenings / on weekends then he can pay for a cleaner / other things that will help.

Without knowing the real restrictions on your husband’s working schedule and giving him the benefit of the doubt that it really is limited in how much it can change, I do think it’s unrealistic to expect him to take up more household work. He will be present, yes, but exhausted – as you are now and will be.

Is the 2yr old in nursery? Is the 4yr old in school yet? The best thing to do is to get a full time nanny-housekeeper (around £35k-40k a year) and a weekly cleaner.

I also work full time with 3 days in the office, as does my DH, but we both clock off at 5:30 and are both only out the house from 8-6 on those 3 days a week. We have a nanny-housekeeper 3 days a week.

My little one is in nursery and my older one goes to school.

I think a cleaner for sure and a nanny / housekeeper to help me with making dinner and putting them to bed. I outsource ironing too.

I’m a single parent who works out the house full time and i had four children to raise alone when ex left when youngest was two.

It can be done but you need strict routines for the children and perhaps use wrap around care so you’re not rushing to do school pick ups and drop offs. You have the advantage of two incomes in the house so this should more affordable than it was for me.
Doing grocery shopping with delivery is great. I often do mine in bed on my phone at a weekend and often get a same day slot.
Choose quick meals for days you have been at work so meal planning for a month could be helpful.
Make sure the children have a good evening and morning routine. Perhaps snack, downtime while you cook, dinner, homework, bedtime story, bed. Bath on nights days you are home unless you have really grubby children.
Housework is the thing you need to let slide on those days. Just the basics such as washing up and leave the bigger chores for the four days you have off and split the tasks between three and keep one for leisure or a trip out.

I think the main difference is that single you haven’t got the same resentment the other adult isn’t doing as much as you.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Just to clarify I won't have any days off, I'll just be working from home two days and from the office 3 days a week.

I was working 5 days a week from home before, so it's going to be quite a change. But I'm hoping it will actually be positive for me !

There are no magic words that will make your husband change his attitude. You can read a million similar threads on here, it's never resolved, if the man doesn't want it to be.

Basically he never sees his children, does any parenting or household management, but works all hours to put money in 'investments'. What a life he has chosen. He must be so dull and unpleasant, but at least you don't see him much I guess!

Yes 100% outsource as much cleaning/cookimg/housework as you can
so you can spend as much meaningful time as possible with the children and without feeling frazzled and exhausted. They are so tiny and need parents who have enough space to breathe and connect with them. And honestly they’ll need as much in different ways as they grow older.

To minimise the ‘nag’ situation, sit down calmly sometime and go through how everything is going to work on a practical basis.

laundry - including the booking / getting ready for / follow up / paying for any outside help.
meals - 3 a day plus snacks, buying, planning, prepping, clearing up.
Getting up, dressed, out.
getting home, bed.
when children are ill - who gets the calls. Who takes what time off.
nursery admin - paying bills etc.
car admin - who’s responsibel
home utilities admin- who’s responsible
adult child free leisure time / lie ins - what you both need/ want and what that looks like in a routine for the week.

Yanbu op. I had this with my DH when i returned to work after my second mat leave. In my experience, a lot of men want the financial security & lifestyle a second high income brings, but underestimate how much work their 50% share of the household/family planning is.

I just had to go on and on about it and initially there was not enough change. After a year i sat him down and explained if he couldn't do some of the packed lunches & batch cooking, take the kids to some of their activities etc, i'd need to cut back to school hours work. I explained that my current senior well paid job wouldnt be an option on such low hours, so I'd probably have to take a lower responsibility role and overall would earn around 1/4 of current wage. I explained that instead of me paying half towards our joint account expenses I'd have to put much less in, and all his "fun money" would have to go on the bill instead.

This focuses his mind somewhat and he stepped up.
He now runs washing in the week, makes the packed lunches 2 days out of 5, and purchased two robot hoovers. He tidies the floors before it gets sent round.

He also realised he needed to be on things like school whatsapp groups and step up doing his share of admin.

Yeah so he does a lot of admin and pays for:

Mortgage
Cars
Insurance, also includes hunting around for new deals when required
All bills
All of our investments
My DD school fees
Any furniture expenses

I take care of
All food and household stuff we need
Kids toys and clothes
DS nursery fees
Cleaner
Birthday presents for kids birthdays we attend very regularly

He makes at least 3 times more than me.

How can I get out of the rut of being called a nag and all these arguments about him having a more intense schedule than me? I don't want to go back into that situation. I'm worried.

I think the point here is that it’s not your responsibility to avoid being called a nag, or to make him realise he needs to play a more active role in family life. That’s on him. He’s a father and husband, it shouldn’t be on you to beg him to pitch in. I will never understand men (or women) who do not get involved with their own families.

I get long, inflexible hours - I work in such a job myself. It’s not an excuse for opting out of responsibilities though. If I’m not available in the evenings, I make up for it at another time of the week, to give others in my house a break for keeping the fort down when I’m gone. It’s called being a responsible adult and family member.

Does he not value doing things for his family? Outside of paying bills…Does he even know his children, spend quality time with them?

I think the problem is that he doesn't seem to want spend time with you or his children? Apologies if ive misunderstood that. I get he can't change his working hours, but surely once the weekend is here he wants to spend as much time with you and kids?

You should give each other a lie in, one on each weekend morning, get a cleaner and help with school pick ups for sure.

If he is leaving before kids wake up and gets back after they are in bed, I just can't get my head round you getting the kids out of his way at the weekends.

I use to nanny for a couple where one worked very high up in banking and the other at the same level for a retail chain, they had a date night once a week and weekends were spent on family bike rides, swimming, family film nights etc etc.

I would be devastated if my husband was grumpy and unsupportive, you and the children should be the centre of his world.

He'd always say he has nothing outside of work and family. Hence I would make sure he had a few hours to himself at the weekend. I don't love it but I don't think it's that unusual. Our kids are at the ' hard work ' age. So yeah, sometimes, even at the weekend, he wants a break and so do I. To do a hobby for a couple of hours or whatever. I don't think it's THAT unusual.

I think it needs to be more balanced going forward. It was like I would get up with the kids, get them ready and go out for a lot of the day. Whereas now we could do it so on a Saturday he goes out with them or I go to the gym or something and get a couple of hours and on a Sunday it's reversed.

I just don't want to fight with him all the time and as soon as I mention anything - it blows up and he calls me a nag. Just looking for a better way to communicate.

@itakemy I agree thats fair enough, you should both get some time to yourselves.

But for you to get kids up on a Saturday and go out for the bulk of the day whilst he gets a lie in I just don't get, isn't he missing you and kids? What is he doing for the day? Does takeover when you get back? Make dinner and put kids to bed while you have a bath or chill on your for a bit?

He'd still be grumpy when we got home and retreat a lot. Then I would go and try and find him and say, come and be with us and he would accuse me of being an albatross around his neck.

That's what absolutely needs to change.

I think he's been pretty depressed but has recently picked up a hobby and it's making a difference on his mood.

I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong, you asking him is already a good way to communicate.

Does he realise how difficult the situation is, that you feel unable to raise this with him repeatedly? He needs to organise and book you both into marriage counselling if he’s unwilling to talk to you at home.

It’s not on you to “nag” him less. It’s on him to listen more.

he would accuse me of being an albatross around his neck

That’s no way of speaking to your partner.

Is the new hobby improving his mood around you and the children? Or just having an effect on him individually, whereby he enjoys getting out of the house a few more hours?

I just don't want to fight with him all the time and as soon as I mention anything - it blows up and he calls me a nag. Just looking for a better way to communicate.

OP - if you're having to walk on eggshells and he is unable to have a civil grown up conversations without having a tantrum or sulking then he is abusive.

I wfh 2 days and am in the office 3 days. I use my wfh days to get laundry loads done (2/3 per day) and get something in the slow cooker for batch cooking both of these days too. It means for the nights when I’m home at tea time there’s something from the fridge/freezer which can be reheated. We have a cleaner fortnightly.

i have 3 kids, 2,5,7. My DH wfh as much as I do but I don’t ask him to do laundry as he always messes it up 🙄

Google emotional abuse and coercive control.

Before you go back I’d go through a week and write down everything you and he do (include the chores he might do like bins or DIY, I say, making assumptions). Make 4 columns:

Outsource | Remove | Simplify | Remain

then add time to each task per week. Include “fun” that is necessary e.g. playing with kids on weekends. Include mental load - remembering birthday cards for family, buying presents for children friends /his mum. Add new ones like “paying cleaner & organising cover.” Do your list on your own first.

Then move the last two columns into a you & him. Then give the outsource list to the cleaner & nanny you will need for some hours a day. (You can’t do pick ups so a nanny or childminder will be needed). With then him list make it clear there won’t be any nagging. Once a task is on the others list the other person is “free of it”. I’d suggest making sure there’s a bit of natural consequences e.g. my husband and I both do laundry but we are individually responsible for our own clothes and share the children and house. That way if he doesn’t do laundry, he will suffer first.

you can split outsource into who you would outsource too.

pin list to fridge / wall (write the kid stuff in a way that doesn’t sound mean)

Later on you can add your kid’s names!

if something becomes your task then you can move it on the list - but the point is not to say you do more, you will with his hours, but to make sure that everything on his list is out of your head. And e.g. if you decide to order in a healthy frozen meals like cook, how much him batch cooking for 2 hours on a Sunday would “earn”. Phrasing tasks he does as money saved would be a motivator!

Its great he has started a hobby that helps his mood, depression is tough to deal with and he obviously works very hard, being self employed must also add a lot to his workload.

Do you think things will improve as the children get older?

I don't mean to sound dramatic but life is short, how happy are you? How happy is he? In 5, 10 years time will you look back on the bulk of your kids childhood with happy family memories?

Could you go it alone? It doesn't sound like a full time cleaner/nanny is going to improve your husbands attitude, being called a nag because you need him to help with his children or an albatross around his neck because you want him to participate in family life is pretty gutting.

Have you thought about an au pair? Or yes, regular childcare. A childminder?