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If the UK has to pay reparations, will other countries?

897 replies

Controversialname · 24/10/2024 19:07

If the UK is made to pay reparations where will that leave other nations who were or indeed still are involved in slavery?

OP posts:
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MonkeyToHeaven · 25/10/2024 11:21

coffeeandteav · 24/10/2024 19:45

Could we cancel their debt instead or does it not work like that?

It could.

Gordon Brown did make moves towards it, pledging to pay off 10% of the debt of developing nations. He cancelled the debt the UK was solely owed by the world's poorest nations.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gordon-brown-african-debt-healthcare-b2545588.html?origin=serp_auto

Gordon Brown warns African nations forced to pay debt over funding vital healthcare

Former PM says ‘I am not sure the world will ever forgive us for failing to deliver’ urgent relief

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gordon-brown-african-debt-healthcare-b2545588.html?origin=serp_auto

suburburban · 25/10/2024 11:27

ChateauMargaux · 24/10/2024 22:57

Just allow movement without borders and allow wealth to settle according to where it lands.

What a great idea not

BMW6 · 25/10/2024 12:16

I know, it's embarrassingly puerile 6th form soundbite.

Nightthoughtss · 25/10/2024 20:44

MrsKwazi · 25/10/2024 10:45

We should rather open our eyes to what is going on in the world right now. Who do you think built that fancy hotel for your holiday in Dubai? Football stadiums in the desert? Pick your fancy coffee beans? Slaves, that is who. A simple google will reveal a lot. But it is too uncomfortable to take on some of the richest countries and rulers on the planet than the simpering bishops and politicians, eager to win a vote (and only until they do!)

Exactly. People pick and choose at their convenience. If you’re truly that bothered go and fight against the horrific slavery in South Sudan which is happening NOW.

littlebilliie · 25/10/2024 22:32

I hope in the spirit of repetition we go after Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Italy and Libya

crumpet · 26/10/2024 03:22

Fuck it - let’s keep it closer to home and go after France. 1066 turned the whole nation into serfs.

andIsaid · 26/10/2024 03:30

NoisyDenimShaker · 24/10/2024 19:25

It's a shameless money grab. I hope the government doesn't give in.

Most of the current wealth in the UK is due to our colonial past.

The minority (us) ruled over the majority (most the world), and took an insane amount of wealth from them in terms of their freedom, their labour, their dignity and their assets.

In order to achieve that, on the scale that we did, the institutions needed to be cruel, supremist and dehumanizing.

We owe so much.

This is an interesting read on all of that:

www.nobelprize.org/prizes/economic-sciences/2024/press-release/

andIsaid · 26/10/2024 03:56

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 24/10/2024 22:05

People living in formerly colonies and other relevant countries do still suffer economic hardship as a result of colonialism

A lot of the current suffering is corruption and shit governance though. Reparations will make a small amount of people even richer and the average person will get bugger all.

I am not sure you understand what our governments did "over there."

A huge amount of responsibility lies with us for making sure there were terrible governments, corruption, minorities ruling over majorities. We designed all of these places to NOT be successful, in order to own/rule them.

Most countries that we pulled out of ended up in civil war - stoked by us, and, of course, using weapons purchased from us.

We had a divide and rule policy in all countries that we were forced out of.

It seems that most think we were nice, went to these places and helped out a little, then went home after teaching them how to speak English and drink tea.

andIsaid · 26/10/2024 04:00

FootbalIslife · 24/10/2024 22:12

We were the first to end slavery, Arabs and Africans at the time held more slaves than we did and continued to do so into this century.

Shall we get repatriations back from them? where’s the compensation from them? Where does it end?

what about the different empires that existed through time? The Belgians were notoriously cruel, are they giving reparations as well? Empires have been fought, won, lost, grown over many centuries. Trying to unpick who owes what to who, is utterly ridiculous.

Should the Germans give the Jews money and land? What about how China is exploiting Africa now?

The Germans paid 90 billion to jews so far - dollars. Since 1950s.

A further 1.5 billion this year.

Germany has been excellent at trying to right a wrong.

Not us though.

Tricho · 26/10/2024 04:15

kistanbul · 24/10/2024 19:54

If we can find the money, we should pay.

I don’t know why people are talking about other countries. I don’t check what the Spanish or Saudis think before I decide right from wrong. The UK should pay for its mistakes. Other nations can do whatever they think right.

Fab ok let me know how much more tax you're willing to pay to sustain it x

Your first sentence indicates to me you actually wouldn't be willing to pay any

beachcitygirl · 26/10/2024 05:54

I think the very least we can do is give back the stolen items.
Eg
Elgin marbles
Benin.bronzes
Māori heads

Etc etc

beachcitygirl · 26/10/2024 05:56

Ps I'm not white

Nightthoughtss · 26/10/2024 09:28

andIsaid · 26/10/2024 03:30

Most of the current wealth in the UK is due to our colonial past.

The minority (us) ruled over the majority (most the world), and took an insane amount of wealth from them in terms of their freedom, their labour, their dignity and their assets.

In order to achieve that, on the scale that we did, the institutions needed to be cruel, supremist and dehumanizing.

We owe so much.

This is an interesting read on all of that:

www.nobelprize.org/prizes/economic-sciences/2024/press-release/

Why only the UK?

Nightthoughtss · 26/10/2024 09:28

beachcitygirl · 26/10/2024 05:54

I think the very least we can do is give back the stolen items.
Eg
Elgin marbles
Benin.bronzes
Māori heads

Etc etc

To who though?

Nightthoughtss · 26/10/2024 09:29

And can we have ours back or do you think there might be more pressing problems going on?

SunnieShine · 26/10/2024 09:40

NoisyDenimShaker · 24/10/2024 19:25

It's a shameless money grab. I hope the government doesn't give in.

Me too. We need the money for our hospitals and schools.

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 26/10/2024 09:51

I am not sure you understand what our governments did "over there."
A huge amount of responsibility lies with us for making sure there were terrible governments, corruption, minorities ruling over majorities. We designed all of these places to NOT be successful, in order to own/rule them.
Most countries that we pulled out of ended up in civil war - stoked by us, and, of course, using weapons purchased from us.
We had a divide and rule policy in all countries that we were forced out of.
It seems that most think we were nice, went to these places and helped out a little, then went home after teaching them how to speak English and drink tea.

I'm actually from a former British Protectorate so I know better than most in the UK what the post-colonial landscape looks like.

Interestingly, countries like Qatar were also British Protectorates and in fact Qatar has only been independent since 1971. Yet they've had an entirely peaceful society since then and used their vast resources to benefit all Qatari citizens. Compare and contrast to Nigeria, which also has vast natural resources.

Most countries gained independence in the 50s or 60s. It's not an extremely long time ago, but it's long enough that at some point there needs to be some responsibility taken the countries themselves. The British also didn't cause the massive cultures of corruption that plague for instance many African countries.

It wasn't much longer ago that Germany lay in ruins and look at them now. Yes they had plenty of help rebuilding via Marshall aid but it's not like most former colonies haven't had large amounts of aid from various sources either.

Overall I hate this narrative that only white/colonialists bad and everyone else good/exploited. It's not like the various areas were living in peace, equality and democracy when the colonists showed up. It's a weird sort of racism or fetishism of the "noble savage".

Be all of this as it may, there is I would say almost zero appetite in the UK to fund a scheme like this. We're in a cost of living crises, taxes are high and about to become higher, services are cut to the bone, we already have an aid bill... there is no way the tax paying public would wear this. No chance at all.

WeWillGetThereInTheEnd · 26/10/2024 10:07

We owe so much.

Not we! Why do you think the descendants of the women, miners, agricultural labourers, factory workers, servants, etc, who were also repressed in severe poverty for generations (probably going back in time immemorial as peasants, slaves, etc) should pay anything for a system, they had no part in?

How many peasants lost their land in the Enclosure; or the Highland clearances? What about reparations to them?

How much power did women have before the 20th century - they couldn’t vote, married women couldn’t own their own property, rape in marriage was legal, and troublesome wives could be packed off to a lunatic asylum? What about reparations to their descendants?

Imo, people who bleat on about reparations should look first to stopping modern slavery!

BlackOrangeFrog · 26/10/2024 10:09

BMW6 · 24/10/2024 19:36

You think?

How could you assign degree of culpability?
Do the African nations who used slaves themselves get included? How about those Africans who captured others to sell to slavers?
Lots of modern black people are decended from slavers, and owned slaves themselves. Do they pay in?

Most people in UK never benefitted in any way from slavery, so who specifically is paying?

Quite, and how far back do we go, to Romans...vikings.. ancient Greece. All had slaves

BlackOrangeFrog · 26/10/2024 10:10

andIsaid · 26/10/2024 04:00

The Germans paid 90 billion to jews so far - dollars. Since 1950s.

A further 1.5 billion this year.

Germany has been excellent at trying to right a wrong.

Not us though.

Where are we going to magic up Billions from? And who do we pay it to, and for how long forever?

Nightthoughtss · 26/10/2024 10:21

Over 60 years of the West African squadron is enough reparation. Edit: in reply to Daisy

Nightthoughtss · 26/10/2024 10:23

Please read up on the situation in Sudan. End modern slavery now.

NewGreenDuck · 26/10/2024 10:24

When reparations started to Jewish people the Holocaust was a recent event. People alive had actually been directly and adversely affected by it. And many perpetrators were alive and never faced justice. I understand that the German government may have agreed to pay pensions to those who had been directly affected. ( I remember being told that by someone who received such a pension)
No one alive today is responsible for the slavery that involved people being taken from Africa.

Arraminta · 26/10/2024 10:48

I wonder if the West African countries who systematically sold hundreds of thousands of their own people to European traders will also be paying reparations?

Ginmonkeyagain · 26/10/2024 11:00

I mean we don't have the 18 trillion pounds being asked for, so they may as well ask for the moon on a stick or or a herd of unicorns.