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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be at my absolute wits’ end?

53 replies

GeneralChaos1 · 22/10/2024 19:06

I don’t know how to get through to my 11 (nearly 12) year old son.

He is like Jekyll and Hyde. Can be an absolute dream, tells us he loves us, helpful, works hard at school, polite to people he meets.

However he can absolutely flip and speak to me like shit. He swears at me and his siblings, is so mean to his siblings all the time saying things like “you’ve got no friends, nobody likes you” etc. Also calls his brother fat a lot. He’s not, not that that matters but I can already see it having an affect on him.

I’ve just overheard him calling him an idiot and “stupid as fuck”. He swears DAILY when he speaks to me and he squares up to me too. He’s a lot smaller than me but if this behaviour continues then it’s going to become a very scary situation for me.

He spoke to me awfully at the weekend and I told him that if he ever spoke to another woman when he is older like that (he wouldn’t dare now) I would not be able to take his side in any way shape or form. It’s vile, and he speaks with so much contempt.

We have both (me and his father) asked him what’s wrong and why he feels it’s ok to speak to us like that.

I feel that we have sufficient boundaries in place for him. He does not have too much screen time (an hour a day on games), he has a regular bed time and gets enough sleep. He has one on one time with one of us. He is lucky enough to live in a nice house.

we speak to him regularly about what is going on for him, he says he’s happy. But he regularly says he’s not a nice person and the reason he speaks that way is because “he’s stupid”. We have spoken to him about how humans are all flawed and we make mistakes or have moments of behaving badly but as long as we reflect on our behaviours and how we treat others and constantly look to improve ourselves then we are doing our best.

He has a group of friends and is chatty and lovely with them, we have close family and they all say how wonderful he is. Honestly, people would be shocked if they saw the way he treated me.

the one thing that is a big sticking point is my husband gets very angry when he is really rude to the point of ending up shouting at him, which I hate. He has been doing a bit better recently as I’ve told him that I do not wish to live in a house where people communicate their unhappiness by shouting at one another. It just riles up the situation and makes it worse. I do feel he’s quite nit picky at all the children though. If something has been left out or they make random silly noises, or they struggle to get to sleep.

yet he’s a very organised and supportive hands on dad that spends a lot of time with the kids and they all adore him.

any advice -
is this normal behaviour for a 12 year old?! I’m seriously worried he’s going to be an abusive partner one day. (Oh I forgot to mention that he gaslights - only this evening he has denied something that I clearly heard him say). Also worry that his 2 siblings will not want a relationship with him when he’s older as he is hideous to them.

AIBU to have these fears and be at my wits’ end?

OP posts:
RealHousewivesOfTaunton · 22/10/2024 19:23

That's not normal behaviour IME. Have you spoken to his school? I know my DC's school would be keen to know about this and work with you to offer various workshops (for him and you), CAHMS and general support.

Ablondiebutagoody · 22/10/2024 19:57

How do you discipline him when he does this?

Hopefully not just "That's not kind, let's talk about your feelings...."

Tonkerbea · 22/10/2024 20:03

Does he have a phone and are you monitoring the content he accesses?

Confusedmeanderings · 22/10/2024 20:05

You have talked a lot about how you explain to him that it's wrong to talk to you like this, but I don't really see any mention of what you do when he does. I agree that shouting at him isn't the answer, but there should be a consequence and you should be firm and consistent in applying it.

ExitViaGiftShop · 22/10/2024 20:09

Unfortunately I do think this is common at this age. Raging hormones, now at secondary school, peer pressure. It's awful but I know it happens a lot. I wonder if he's acting out stuff that happens at school amongst his peers? it might be that he can't stand up to them and gets pushed around a bit, so you all have to suffer at home as he lets out his rage / moods in a safe environment.

He needs putting in his place and told very clearly that being horrible to his family and squaring up to his mother is completely unacceptable.

When he is calm, ask him if there are any worries, bullying, school work stress.

verycloakanddaggers · 22/10/2024 20:13

Firsty this: I forgot to mention that he gaslights - only this evening he has denied something that I clearly heard him say This is not gaslighting - this is just regular 12yo lying.

the one thing that is a big sticking point is my husband gets very angry when he is really rude to the point of ending up shouting at him, which I hate. He has been doing a bit better recently as I’ve told him that I do not wish to live in a house where people communicate their unhappiness by shouting at one another. It just riles up the situation and makes it worse. I do feel he’s quite nit picky at all the children though. If something has been left out or they make random silly noises, or they struggle to get to sleep. This sounds important. What does your husband shout, for how long? How nit picky is he - what does he say?

Getting angry is pretty normal for a 12yo. The extreme personal insults and swearing are unacceptable. Squaring up to you is very concerning.

I think you need to access some help - start with the GP and school.

Edited to add: I echo the question from others - what do you do when he swears and when he bullies the others? You need a consequence that is big enough to matter but not so big as to make it pointless behaving for the rest of the week.

Original poster
GeneralChaos1 · 22/10/2024 20:22

This is definitely not CAMHS level behaviour. Probably family support level behaviour. However, beyond firm and consistent sanctions, clear boundaries and routines, love and safety, enough sleep, bonding experiences what else can they teach us? Honestly I’m at a loss!

Ive tried getting MH support through school before and he absolutely did not want it. He says he’s happy.

sanctions - no time on nintendo, no pocket money. firm and consistent.

he does have a phone. It is controlled using family link, he cannot download apps and there are websites blocked. It is closely monitored (I check it every night) and ou switches off at 7pm. His phone use averages 20mins a day. I’d rather he didn’t have one at all but it is useful for the walk to and from school. I don’t let them on YouTube because I find it mind numbing rot.

he doesn’t tend to go out with friends although we wish he would do that more as live in a safe area and would like him to experience face to face experiences and take risks in the real world. He does have friends and seems to be sticking with the same ones at secondary school which is fine but have encouraged him to try and make new ones.

OP posts:
Original poster
GeneralChaos1 · 22/10/2024 20:28

verycloakanddaggers · 22/10/2024 20:13

Firsty this: I forgot to mention that he gaslights - only this evening he has denied something that I clearly heard him say This is not gaslighting - this is just regular 12yo lying.

the one thing that is a big sticking point is my husband gets very angry when he is really rude to the point of ending up shouting at him, which I hate. He has been doing a bit better recently as I’ve told him that I do not wish to live in a house where people communicate their unhappiness by shouting at one another. It just riles up the situation and makes it worse. I do feel he’s quite nit picky at all the children though. If something has been left out or they make random silly noises, or they struggle to get to sleep. This sounds important. What does your husband shout, for how long? How nit picky is he - what does he say?

Getting angry is pretty normal for a 12yo. The extreme personal insults and swearing are unacceptable. Squaring up to you is very concerning.

I think you need to access some help - start with the GP and school.

Edited to add: I echo the question from others - what do you do when he swears and when he bullies the others? You need a consequence that is big enough to matter but not so big as to make it pointless behaving for the rest of the week.

Edited

I agree my husband shouting is very important and have been waiting to see if anyone else thinks so. I believe this has had a big impact on him and it is modelled behaviour. I will say, husband does not square up or swear profusely (he’s not always completely PG in his language though when very angry.)

personally I think that my son feels that when you feel anger you have to SHOW it. As this is what I’ve seen. It’s become a bit of a cycle of shit - son behaves badly, husband gets cross, shouts, is asked not to shout by me, says “yes but I’m cross!” and the whole situation just blows up. I’ve told him that feeling cross/angry is normal however his response is not (husband this is). I just feel it is learnt behaviour from my son that’s getting worse now he’s reaching adolescence- but is also exaggerated because he’s smaller and feels safe if that makes sense

OP posts:
Garlicnaan · 22/10/2024 20:31

Could you look into family counselling sessions where your husband and child can both work on their communication?

I feel like they might not take it on board from you, a third party may help.

LovePrueLeithsGlasses · 22/10/2024 20:34

Even though you have different styles of discipline, it’s important that before your children you appear united and mutually supportive. Any disagreements about reactions to your son should be ironed out in private.

Original poster
GeneralChaos1 · 22/10/2024 20:35

That’s a good idea. They often have repairing sessions and are best mates and talk all through afterwards. We’ve had a blow up this evening but they’ve been out together for a walk and come back having discussed how to move forwards without shouting. Son is delightful again (he is the majority of the time to be fair!) but I just know it will all happen again and fear it getting worse as he gets older. Husband has been listening to a calm parenting podcast too which he says is useful. But he just seems to snap at the sound of son being disrespectful and rages at him which does not help!!

OP posts:
usernother · 22/10/2024 20:38

It's definitely not normal for any child, never mind a 12 year old and it sounds awful OP. His poor siblings. You do sound like you have good boundaries in place but I think you need to put some punishments and consequences in place too, otherwise this will escalate. Do you know about any of his friends, do they behave like this to their parents?

Original poster
GeneralChaos1 · 22/10/2024 20:39

LovePrueLeithsGlasses · 22/10/2024 20:34

Even though you have different styles of discipline, it’s important that before your children you appear united and mutually supportive. Any disagreements about reactions to your son should be ironed out in private.

Completely agree, although when he’s in a full rage I try and intervene to calm the situation. I will not stand back and let that happen without saying anything

OP posts:
GinForBreakfast · 22/10/2024 20:40

Are you absolutely sure that there is nothing else going on? He's not being bullied or getting drawn into stuff that you don't know about through his friends?

Moodiness is one thing, squaring up to you is off the scale.

Does your husband treat you with respect and kindness in front of your children?

LovePrueLeithsGlasses · 22/10/2024 20:42

Have you tried backing off and leaving your husband to react to him?

thebbi · 22/10/2024 20:44

I personally wouldn't have a problem with your husband shouting at him, particularly if your son is acting threatening to you.

Whilst it is always important to talk about feelings and be an open door, sometimes children's behaviour warrant shouting or a punishment (obviously not physical punishment in any way).

Games would be stopped instantly, any treats would be cancelled until I had good behaviour for an agreed amount of time (maybe about 3 days).

Original poster
GeneralChaos1 · 22/10/2024 20:44

LovePrueLeithsGlasses · 22/10/2024 20:42

Have you tried backing off and leaving your husband to react to him?

Nope. Should I? Is that where I’m going wrong??

OP posts:
Original poster
GeneralChaos1 · 22/10/2024 20:45

Maybe I should let him just shout and also tell him that he cannot play football with his dad unless he spends 3 days not swearing

OP posts:
Original poster
GeneralChaos1 · 22/10/2024 20:47

And yes, the squaring up is unacceptable. I’ve told him in no uncertain terms that if he ever did that to another woman I would not be there to back him up and I would fight her corner. Awful behaviour. There’s nothing intimidating about it at the moment - he’s tiny compared to me. But needs nipping in the bud because he won’t be for long

OP posts:
LovePrueLeithsGlasses · 22/10/2024 20:47

I’m not saying you’re going wrong but offering another idea which might be effective.

Original poster
GeneralChaos1 · 22/10/2024 20:48

LovePrueLeithsGlasses · 22/10/2024 20:47

I’m not saying you’re going wrong but offering another idea which might be effective.

Yes thanks, taking it all on board and so good to hear other perspectives

OP posts:
EvelynBeatrice · 22/10/2024 20:49

What does he have access to online or through his friends ?

fruitypancake · 22/10/2024 20:54

I think I would be looking into checking for neurodiversity- it sounds like he is acting up where he feels safe.
See coke bottle analogy.
You could try looking at parenting strategies for ADHD and autism and see if you can pick out one or two things to try .
Is he remorseful after he has behaved badly?
Remember that all behaviour is communication and this does not make him a bad person or you a bad parent

Original poster
GeneralChaos1 · 22/10/2024 20:55

EvelynBeatrice · 22/10/2024 20:49

What does he have access to online or through his friends ?

Limited online access and friends have boundaries on phone/online too. Honestly not worried about what he’s doing online, we are very careful with phones / online activity.

if you want to hear something funny; I am a secondary school teacher. So deal with teenagers day in day out. Have a good understanding of their development during this period. Am firm and consistent at work. Honestly it’s so much easier dealing with other people’s children

OP posts:
LovePrueLeithsGlasses · 22/10/2024 20:58

He doesn’t square up to your husband, does he? I wouldn’t threaten to support a woman in the future - you are that woman now. Your son can be argumentative and difficult without being intimidating.

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