To think social mobility is impossible for working class /lower middle class kids?

[Cheeriosay]

And if it is possible how?! I feel the prospect of social mobility is at an all time low for teens/young adults due to the educational crisis in schools, cost of living crisis & lack of opportunity to move up in the world. This was relatively easy years ago either through education, marriage (or both).. Now it's not going to be as easy for teens & young adults who want to climb the social ladder.
I'm putting it bluntly, I'm sure some posters will be on soon to say these teens should know their place & not be getting ideas above their station but sod that!

Ok now you're just being an insulting smarmy twat because I don't agree with you. I can't be bothered to type out long anysis of your whiny posts where you insinuate only millionaires have done well.

You sound bitter about the fact that opportunities that are available apparently aren't attractive or attainable despite several posters sharing stories of how they started at the bottom and ended up somewhere far better because the possibilities are out there.

Insulting people who don't agree with you is a sign of low intelligence, maybe that's why you struggle with social mobility. I have not insulted you just because I disagree with you but you're insulting me. Fuck off and moan to someone else about how hard life is. I'm not stupid or I wouldn't have got to where I am, I just can't be bothered with idiots like you who keep moving the goal posts.

That's so false. You can get well paid jobs in almost any city. Obviously the megabucks jobs are in London, but I live in the midlands and our head of department is on 6 figures.

100% YANBU. I came of age in the late 90s. I had the opportunity to go to university without a massive loan (small loan).
Now kids must get 60k in debt ( and yes, it is a debt and it’s put my kids off and lots of their friends especially with wages in the uk being so low)
I could easily get a part time job at university to support myself. There were loads of retail jobs. Now there are very few.
I could get on schemes to go work anywhere in Europe and learn a new language ( or I could go to Spain and work in a bar for a while and get life experience).
I could get into a creative industry by door knocking, earn a low wage and just about be able to afford a room in a flat in London on it.
I could buy a one bed flat in London for 3x my wage in my first “ professional “ job.
I could apply for jobs where you got to speak to a human doing the recruiting and it wasn’t AI based and some baffling algorithm that I couldn’t crack to even get an interview.
I could get a job without 3 recruitment stages - people would see a young enthusiastic person and give them a go.
I went to a shit school in a dodgy area with parents with no useful contacts at all, and really had no career advice but there was a sense that things were possible. I saw my peers at college strive and succeed and I saw I could too.
I cocked up a lot of my opportunities because they seemed unlimited but my young adult kids definitely don’t feel like they even have the opportunities. Everything is so hard now. It’s totally different.

I can't be bothered to type out long anysis

That post was pretty long….

Insulting people who don't agree with you is a sign of low intelligence,

“smarmy twat”

Fuck off and moan to someone else about how hard life is

My life isn’t hard & I have not said it was?

I'm not stupid

Shall we take a vote?

Now do you have anymore insightful contributions?

You think land (which requires a lot of money to build on), auction properties (which require you to be a cash buyer, and usually sell for significantly over the auction list price anyway), and retirement properties (which have age restrictions) are "a way in" for a FTB?! 🤯

I've heard it all now. One of the stupidest things I've read on MN, and that's saying something.

I live in the north, and I know what houses cost in the towns around here. It may be cheaper than the south, but it's not really much easier for FTBs because wages are also a lot lower.

Nope just that I'm not wasting any more time on you.

Feel free to vote on whether someone you have never met and don't know is stupid. Your opinion on me means nothing.

Have the day you deserve.

@TarantinoIsAMisogynist quite.

Now do you have anymore insightful contributions?

That will be a no then!

🙄

Sorry is anything you have said insightful or useful?

Seems like your just here to argue with people and sneer at the ones who don't agree with you.

More difficult than it was but it is still possible - the most important factor is engaging with the education system…all you need is 5 gcse passes and there are a wealth of courses available that will lead in to university or an apprenticeship. And before anyone says ‘a decent uni won’t look at someone with just 5 GCSE’s’ it’s not about the uni name anymore, it’s the course and how it rates against others that matters (& relevant recruiters/employers will know which are good & not). I agree that grammars don’t serve their purpose anymore - just put up house prices in the catchment.

I was suprised too when I did a quick rightmove check for postcode I bought my first flat in, in 2004. Flat was 74k, my post uni starting salary was 17k, so less than a quarter of the property price, getting a mortgage was not easy, only 1 bank would accept me out of many aporoached, on not the best interest rate.

The same job with 5 years experience now pays around 52k, making a 120k flat very affordable.

But can only compare like with like. That's why I compared same property in same area, fees for same uni course and salary for same job.

And you are still going …

That will be a no then.

When I was a FTB in the mid 00s, I bought a 2 bed ex-council house in a scruffy area of a large northern city with DH (then my boyfriend). It cost £90k and we could just about afford that on our combined wages.

The wages for the jobs we had haven't gone up a great deal since then (wage deflation has been a huge thing since 2008), but that house last sold for well over £200k. If we were FTBs in those same jobs now, we wouldn't be able to afford it.

That's the reality. Going to uni isn't what gives someone a leg up these days - owning a property is. Someone who doesn't go to uni but learns a trade and buys a home early has a better chance at social mobility than someone with a masters who can't afford to buy and won't inherit.

Sorry is anything you have said insightful or useful?

For you? Doubt it.

Seems like your just here to argue with people and sneer at the ones who don't agree with you

Im not arguing with people, just you. And it’s not because you don’t agree with me it’s because you are posting some stupid comments.

Are you finished now?

Nope just that I'm not wasting any more time on you.

And yet you typed the above? 😆😆

wage deflation has been a huge thing since 2008

This is often overlooked but so important

So you're a child that needs the last word. Got it. 😉

Its always been extremely hard. People from disadvantaged backgrounds rarely ever rise to the highest levels. You just hear a lot of noise about the small number that do, alongside strong messaging that you could have this too if you just work hard enough, which is a blatant lie to keep the workers working. Education is important, but the best system can only do so much and can't act as a counter balance to the real barrier to social mobility, which is generational wealth. Sometimes economic conditions are more favourable and people get a bit ahead, but as soon as that changes, they typically lose that advantage, because its not based on a strong foundation.

You contradicted yourself. @Bushmillsbabe

You said you bought with a student loan. The salary you’re talking about is with five years experience.

we all know how much house prices have historically increased in a five year period. So assuming the same trajectory that same place would be unaffordable by the time they got to a salary to afford it at todays prices.

You’re both derailing the thread to be honest.

I’m happy to stop as it was an interesting debate

Sometimes economic conditions are more favourable and people get a bit ahead, but as soon as that changes, they typically lose that advantage, because its not based on a strong foundation.

Thats a good point. During Covid my friends husband was seriously ill (not covid) and in hospital for a month & off work for a few months. She was able to take leave to support the family on full pay & he had full pay plus insurance. I remember her saying how lucky they were because some people in those circumstances could lose their jobs &/or be hit very hard financially.

This is very true the ability to build a safety net is a marker of success in today's world.

In my experience more and more companies are offering robust sick pay, family leave policies and private healthcare to it's employees as people need those things more than ever and it's a good way of retaining talent. It's good that this is being offered to normal people with normal jobs now as historically private healthcare has been only for the rich. More financial security for people is life changing to those hanging to their lifestyle by a thread and stops people falling back to the starting block.