Does anyone have a marriage where the mental loa is truly equally shared?

[Poiul]

Or is that disparity just the price you pay
for being a woman?

I’m engaged to a lovely, modern man. We definitely share 50% of chores. We have both done well academically and professionally. On paper I have probably surpassed him in fact. Df definitely respects me as an individual and would never expect me to be his “mummy” and iron his shirts. But I will as an expression of my appreciation for him if he is running behind.

I have just noticed that I am more thoughtful. I just think about things that would never enter his brain. And on a more strategic level. He isn’t on my level with thoughtfulness but he’s pretty good by most standards. But the standard is shit let’s be honest. He will buy presents for his nephews, organise meals out, plan holidays and run baths for me etc.

Im just worried that once kids enter the mix I’ll start resenting him for somewhat deferring to me. Albeit not intentionally.

Df’s brother just had a baby. As one of our gifts I crocheted a mini replica of their dog for the new baby. Everyone loved it. I know I enjoy these sort of things so perhaps I’m being harsh. I just would’ve liked something really thoughtful to come from Df - his ideas are all a bit generic.

Am I just overthinking this? I’m scared that I will resent Df. But obviously he’s a guy so many would accept that his brain is wired differently.

I can picture writing a note from the tooth fairy in a few years and being pissed off that I’m the one who thought of it/doing it.

Yes I am, but I think you do what a lot of women do, that you impose your standards on someone else. It’s not done “properly” or “good enough” unless it’s done your way. Thats not going to work. If someone else shares the load, they do the load their way. You don’t get to dictate how someone carries out daily tasks. Or if you think you’re better and you want to do it your way, then you need to do the task. What kills a relationship is someone wanting someone else to do things THEIR way. Doesn’t work.

I just think we're different people so come up with different ideas and enjoy different tasks more. Ie I might do the whole tooth fairy thing but dh would make Christmas puddings with the DC. He chooses much better gifts but I write and send cards....

It's a partnership! It's no good if you both do the same things.

The mental load split probably swings my way, but my DH does 100% of the cooking for the family, and more than his fair share of housework. He is also completely equal in what he does for our baby (aside from feeding him at the moment but not much he can do about that).

With all that considered, my taking on a little more of the mental load in terms of diary management, life admin etc isn't exactly unfair.

In my marriage it’s shared.

DH deals with all car things, insurances, treatments + appointments for the dog, the kids’ dentist, vaccinations + hair cuts, airport parking, flights, laundry, gardening, bin days, bills, he does mornings + kids’ breakfast etc

I do our social calendar, kids’ activities, pick holidays, pack for holidays, pick decor, most of the cooking, family finances, kids’ clothes, I make lunch + dinner etc

We both contribute equally for kids’ presents (meaning they are unintentionally spoiled 😂), we do online food shopping together, bath + bedtime equally.

He does more cleaning and tidying around the house. I probably change more nappies and exclusively breastfeed.

He is the sole breadwinner and I’m a SAHM.

I have just noticed that I am more thoughtful. I just think about things that would never enter his brain. And on a more strategic level.

Df’s brother just had a baby. As one of our gifts I crocheted a mini replica of their dog for the new baby. Everyone loved it. I know I enjoy these sort of things so perhaps I’m being harsh. I just would’ve liked something really thoughtful to come from Df - his ideas are all a bit generic.

That's not 'thoughtful' or 'strategic', though -- that's 'I like doing my craft and decided to make a present.' I am a woman and it would not have occurred to me to buy or make a present for any of DH's (very nice) siblings' babies, because they're his family. Similarly, it would not occur to me to criticise whatever he did get them as a present as 'generic'. Newborn babies are pretty generic, after all.

What do you mean when you say you are more thoughtful and 'strategic'? Because at the moment it sounds as if you're creating 'wifework' for yourself.

No, my DH probably does more.

Sounds like your partner had some ideas for the baby gift but you thought they weren't as good as your idea. Why not just let him crack on with whatever he wanted to get?

If it helps with a bit of perspective OP, we got a beautiful personalised gift from my brother and sister in law for our baby. I am 100% sure that it was her idea, not his. It doesn't make it any less special, but also we'd have been equally delighted if my brother himself had picked up a packet of sleepsuits from Asda on the way over.

My point being that you don't need to go the extra mile for things like that unless you want to, and if it's something you want to do then it's not fair to be annoyed that it didn't occur to your DH.

My brother and two brother in laws, but all were always very organised and quick to do whatever needed to be done.

Yes, I do, but it's a second marriage, and I have less tolerance for carrying someone else's mental load than I used to! DH's side of the family are his responsibility, its up to him to buy the birthday presents, send Christmas cards, remember anniversaries, arrange visits, etc for that wing of the family, and I look after the relatives on my side of the family. I'm not going to lie, sometimes he doesn't remember birthdays quite on time, and the gift he buys them can be a bit generic, but as @Cookiecrumblepie says, I'm not going to impose my standards on him! This was conscious decision after getting thoroughly fed up of being the one spinning all the plates in my previous marriage- I'd actually argue it was one of the straws that finally broke the camel's back. In my current marriage everything else is split fairly evenly, and if I ever feel things are becoming a bit uneven I'll tell him and he does take it on board. However, I'm very aware that DH is wired very differently to my ex, and he genuinely wants things to be split equitably; so I'd argue its partly setting expectations, and partly the temperament of your partner.

I think my DH actually does a larger part, overall to be honest.

I do not, I carried everything for the children - clothing, doctors, clubs etc. he doesn't even know where they are half the time.

However, he does do all the house admin - I haven't paid a bill for 15 years - and lots of other things I can't do. So although I might have a pang at the idea of him buying a gift for his nephews (I don't, they don't get anything from us) I know that we balance out in other ways.

Or at least that's what I tell myself.

I think things are pretty equal in my marriage...I am more likely to think of thoughtful gifts for people but DH is good at other stuff I hate (e.g. shopping around for good deals on broadband).

He is just as likely to read and respond to a school email as I am (eg. consent for school trips, pay £5 for charity etc)

My partner is very good at lots of things but he is not a good planner so I think this can cause me to take some of the load. I’ve stopped doing as much now - he will do it eventually it’s just a bit of a rush. He was like this when we didn’t live together. He gets to it eventually just not as fast as I would. He would write a letter to the tooth fairy but leave it until 10 mins before he went to bed. I would do it when the child fell asleep. Doesn’t mean he wouldn’t do it, but if I am always jumping in to do it faster then he gets fed up it doesn’t make him do things faster, it just makes it look like I think I do things better than him. You made something lovely but not everyone has the skill to do this so I don’t think it’s a shit standard. It won’t be equal if you look down on him and think you are superior to him

I think that you’re unfair to judge your h on present buying. While the crocheted dog sounds amazing, it’s not something that the average person is going to be able to replicate in skill or idea.

I did most of the mental load when it came to raising my kids but my ex excelled in some areas - for example he was the first to jump to clean up vomit and diarrhea whatever time at night even though he couldn’t choose a thoughtful gift to save his life. He was to do all the driving around taking them places while I didn’t mind keeping on top of the school stuff.

Some food for thought
What’s he like when you are ill?
What’s he like when you have to prioritise something/someone else over him ?
Is his work a big part of his life ? I’ve read some stories where the man works 6/7 days a week. Would he be willing to change jobs or rearrange his working life if he’s in one of those jobs that dominate his life ? If he’s a workaholic now, chances are he sees himself as working long hours after kids too.

You’ve had some good responses already, the only thing I’d add is that there’s more than one way of being thoughtful, and what you see as thoughtful and what someone else receives as thoughtful are not necessarily the same.

Like I’m sure you feel you were thoughtful with a cross stitched dog as a gift for a baby. But as someone who had a baby 6 months ago, my newborn wouldn’t have had a clue what it was and I’d have no use for it, but an Uber Eats voucher, a bag of snacks, or a meal ready for me to heat up because a friend knew I wouldn’t have the time or energy to cook with a newborn was my favourite and most thoughtful gift. A thoughtful gift is one chosen with the recipients interests & needs in mind, for parents of a newborn that is far more likely to be a pack of nappies, a food/snack delivery or even a little pamper basket for a new mum than it is to be a cross stitched photo of a dog. You may have saw your gift as thoughtful, and you may think a bag with some nappies/crisps/face mask in or a lasagne ready to heat up as not thoughtful, but I can guess which the new parents would have preferred and would have found more thoughtful.

@Mrsttcno1

it was crochet, not cross stitch. So the finished article would be more like a soft toy, which eventually the baby might like to play with (especially if it is a replica of the family dog which might be less tolerant of being carried around by the ears).

I think you maybe need to relax a bit , OP, and try to value your DP for what he does do, rather than what he doesn’t (if you both sat crocheting toy dogs, it might be a bit internecine). Of course, if what you are saying is he doesn’t do enough, or you don’t like what / how he contributes, that’s a poor look out for the long term

Signed : someone who has lived for many years with a man who hasn’t a clue where we keep the spare olive oil, or when we need to buy some more , but has cowed the electricity people into giving us a very good tariff.

There’s necessary mental load - someone needs to do laundry, plan holidays, life admin etc., but there’s also stuff that’s optional, and handmade gifts are definitely optional!

We have designated areas of mental load each. I think maybe more of it falls to me but its give and take.

DP does all things holidays - arranging, researching, booking, flights, insurance, car hire. Also he arranges services / MOTs on the cars. He buys food if I send him a list. He cooks dinner Monday nights and is always happy to be given veg to peel / potatoes to mash etc on other nights. He is the point of contact for DD's hobby. He unloads and reloads dishwasher when he's around. He's meant to put the bins out but often forgets (this does piss me off sometimes). He is out of the house early for work but comes home mid afternoon so is helpful then.

He flatly acknowledges that he hates cleaning (as do I) so we pay for a cleaner once a fortnight.

I am in charge of washing / drying. I do the online food shops and the vast majority of the cooking and thinking of what to cook. I do some cleaning in between when the cleaner comes and tidy before they come. I sort the recycling. I deal with most of the day to day routines of school pick ups / drop offs as its only a short walk away and I work from home. I practice reading with DD. I go to all the birthday parties because I like seeing the other Mums. I do all DD's hair washing / combing. I sort the cat out.

We pretty much share the gardening.

We have a night maybe every three weeks where we go through the diaries and check we have everything in for school / work / social stuff etc.

I feel like I am the one that remembers the important stuff, but he's good at being a supporting role to me and I feel like he helps run the ship.

Even so, in terms of “thoughtful” gifts for new parents, some may think that is, some (like me) who are tired, hungry, sleep deprived, running on empty, house a mess, self care at an all time low, would probably have gone “great, that can go in the cupboard for a year, now lets find something to eat”.

Thoughtful to new parents is often the things that others would typically think of as an easy or thoughtless gift. A food voucher, a meal, some snacks, some nappies or baby vests, a face mask etc would be just what a new parent really needs, and arguably a more thoughtful present although in another situation may be seen as a lazy gift!

My DH is wonderful and certainly does more than his fair share of the housework (he is retired, I'm not) but he doesn't really understand what the mental load is. Some things he is extremely good at, practical things like arranging insurance or arranging a new internet provider, but the less practical things seem to be completely off his radar.
I thought when he was retired he would take over the online supermarket shopping and meal planning, arrange holidays/weekends away, organise Christmas etc., but no. I do the online shopping, or it just wouldn't get done at all. Meal planning is very hit and miss as he does most of the cooking. I arrange any holidays/weekends away and I organise Christmas. I do draw the line at present-buying for his family though. He does his, and I do mine.

This. I always remember the tooth fairy and enjoy doing it. It doesn’t annoy me that DH lets me be the one who remembers that. If I wasn’t around I know he’d do it.

im really crap at remembering to move money around and pay bills etc. I also haven’t taxed the car in years. I’d have to do those things if DH wasn’t around.

what would really scupper us is if we ran around duplicating half the tasks whilst both simultaneously forgetting the other half of what needs to be done.

we do sort of fit into stereotypically male and female jobs but we are both ok with that so it works.

as a society yes we should be looking at men and women being valued equally but that doesn’t mean one size fits all.

are YOU happy with the split of labour? If so don’t worry so much about it. Just ride the tide…. 😂

I am very happy in my marriage, DH respects me and does probably more than 50% of housework stuff (when he's here). He's the kind of husband that I could ask him to do anything and he'd do it. But I absolutely shoulder more of the mental load tbh. I blame myself, we've been together since a young age and I loved our life entwining and probably went too far, plus he works away a lot so naturally things do tend to fall to me. Add to that I am a complete control freak and do tend to enjoy hoarding it. The only time it's an issue in our relationship is if I feel it's not appreciated, which happens from time to time.

I've definitely learned from some mistakes that I will be trying to help my children learn from! But DH and I have a really open dialogue and I know if I really did need to offload something I could.

The example you’ve given is not a good one to support what you’re trying to say. So he didn’t come up with a fabulously unique gift for a baby he’s never met that doesn’t belong to him?? So?
Is that the extent of his ‘thoughtlessness’? Cos buying kids present, running baths and organising meals out spontaneously sounds fairly thoughtful to me?
Not sharing the mental load means that one of you does ALL the planning, cooking, presents, holidays, appointments etc etc…
Buying a slightly boring gift for a baby doesn’t really come into it.

This.
it’s absolutely possible.

And the mental load in our house is shared.
He does all our bills, cars, holidays, insurance.
I do kids, school, birthdays, doctors and dentist, shopping for clothes and shoes and food, decorating.
Household chores and running kids taxi service is fairly even split. I do more as I work part time.