UK fertility rate drops by 18.8% in 12 years

[MidnightPatrol]

The UK has the fastest falling fertility rate in the G7.

2022 saw the lowest number of births for 20 years.

The current TFR is 1.49 births per woman.

What do you think the reason for this is, and what could be done to reverse the trend?

news.sky.com/story/amp/britains-fertility-rate-falling-faster-than-any-other-g7-country-with-austerity-thought-to-be-a-principal-factor-13232314

I think that men are a big part of the problem tbh. Quite often they can't be relied on or kick the can down the road making all sorts of promises but wasting your time. I've also watched friends husbands say they would share parental leave as they were the lower earner, only to declare once their wives were pregnant that, no they actually aren't doing that and become less than useless. It makes those of us watching think twice.

I'm late 30s no kids. I had a relationship for most of my 30s where he knew he was wasting my time but instead pretended he just wanted stability 'we should buy a house first' etc etc, constantly moving the goalposts.

Now I live alone it's a financial struggle, I can't afford to live near my work so once you include my commute I'm out of the house for 12+ hours, I don't have time, energy or money to go on dates. Plus I don't trust men anymore, I've definitely become slightly avoidant.

You do need to think about if you become a single mother are you going to be able to feed and clothe a child, give them a half decent upbringing and chance in life. It's not fair to just have one because you want one and condemn them to a life of struggling.

I think modern life is just depressing to be honest. I think in so many ways we are going horribly wrong but I can't see it getting better anytime soon.

Agree- it is making people into control freaks! It’s exhausting and no way to live.

I've four adult kids all with houses, good jobs and all in long term settled relationships. None of them want to have kids. They could afford kids they just don't want them.

Who is suggesting it is 'all kodak moments' that hackenyed insult is really indicative of the mindset I'm referring to. Who says being a parent is my 'entire personality', that's like suggesting 'not' being a parent is your 'entire personality'- it's not is it? I know loads of parents with varying careers (many of which people would love to have) and not one of them is defined by their status as parent, that just happen to be one.

Having a child with a person you don't love on a 'whimsy' is a very bad idea and definitely won't work out, having a child with someone you love is key. I've done it, I know that it is not all an exercise in pragmatism far from it, my eldest is nearly an adult and a very successful one (by all measures) so I definitely know that you can forget pragmatism sometimes, it is not key to bringing up children at all. In fact I'd argue the opposite, it is stifling, children need to be cherished, nurtured and be provided the conditions to run with their imagination not micromanaged and have their lives mapped out to the nth degree.

I agree cost is the big one. There needs to be a way that parents can know they can take time to care for young kids and still have a reasonable home situation. Childcare is one way but it won't always work, there just needs to be more flexibility in terms of an income sustaining family life.

But I also think the intense parenting culture now is totally off putting. And some of it is things like "your kid needs to be in six activities and take them to a high level" which it is more plausible to reject, but it also includes things like, you can't let your kids go out alone until they are 10, or you have to put up with seriously disordered sleep for five years, or you need to spend your free time playing with your children.

It's not sustainable for most and people are told they are failures as parents if they don't live up to it.

In my own life I notice that people are leaving it later to have children for a variety of reasons and therefore either struggling to conceive, having more medical issues which makes it less likely they will have another or leaving less time on the fertility clock to have another. Teenage pregnancy seems to have disappeared which is a good thing but the alternative has brought its own issues.

Absolutely agree with @TempestTost about the expectations of parenting now. I was born in the 80s and we entertained ourselves. Beyond feeding, clothing, housing and holding us accountable, parents didn’t do anywhere near what is now expected when most of us were growing up. My Mum never ‘played’ with us, she just told us to get to the table/go to bed/checked our homework and put plasters on grazed knees!

Cost obviously. Both DH and I come from what were reasonably comfortable upper middle class backgrounds (private school, large houses etc.) in the 90s/00s and there is no way we can give our children that kind of lifestyle. Simply down to the cost of living changing so much.

Also the expectation of child rearing seems so much higher and more expensive due to late stage capitalism being bonkers.

Of friends who do have children it is very much quickly pump out two in your mid to late 30s (for me 33 and 36 which is on the young side) and being too old/broke/knackered to have more. Some people have stuck at one due to either cost or fertility issues.

But I have lots of friends without. The vast majority of my uni friends haven't due to settling down late or being with men who keep putting it off. Now quite a few are having fertility problems. Also lots of them just have nice life styles and are unwilling to change them or quite ambivalent about children.

We also has fertility issues due to male factor and I wonder how many people have sub-fertility and what the long term implications are.

I don't mind the population being boosted by immigration but will there be enough people to pay into the tax pot in 40 years when I need a pension?! Seeing as this is a world wide trend.

I think it’s great that people now feel comfortable making the choices that feel right for them. The social pressure to have a family is definitely decreasing and Gen Xer’s like me have no expectations that our teenagers/young adult children will have families.

I believe that the UN and other entities have estimated that the global population will peak in the 2080’s and then start declining. A much larger portion of the population will be over 65 then, so it’ll be rough for older people later this century as there won’t be enough working younger people in proportion to them.

Eventually the numbers will even out, but if we think it’s difficult getting services now, it’ll be a lot worse in 30 to 50 years.

Yeah, I think that so long as childbearing is largely pushed into the 30s, you are going to see a reduction in kids overall. Some will not meet anyone, some will be infertile, many will only be able to manage one. The fact is the 20s are women's most fertile 10 years.

And it's not just pushed into the 30s, there are people who are pushing it into the early 40 as well.

I've wondered if it might not be a social good in many ways to make a real effort to look at the length of time we have young people in education. I am all for general education, but the fact of the matter is we have many jobs asking for degrees that are unnecessary, where people could learn on the job, in apprenticeships, or even forgo university altogether. It's a huge cost to society, and it's a cost to individuals, and it also an indirect cost as it keeps them out of the workforce for something like four years - often more.

So you have people not even beginning earning until about 25, they have a debt and want to establish themselves. Plus, you are not going to give that up for kids, you've invested too much.

There could be a lot to be said for most people going to work by the time they are 20 and earning, starting without a debt, or possibly in some cases for women to have kids fairly young (assuming a reasonable partner) and then going into a career afterwards, which would be much more manageable if they didn't need four more years of education.

It would need a real change in attitudes to education, professionalization, and mothers though. And we'd have to stop seeing people in their 20s as children, too immature to do anything really important. The reason our young people are like that is because we don't give them real responsibility, not because they aren't capable.

And we'd have to stop seeing people in their 20s as children, too immature to do anything really important. The reason our young people are like that is because we don't give them real responsibility, not because they aren't capable.

@TempestTost I completely agree with this. I’ve seen it among my friends- those who expect their young adult children to get on with their lives experience fewer problems than the parents who helicopter and constantly rescue. Why bother to stick with a job/manage your money, for example, if you know that Mum and Dad will swoop in and pay all your bills?

I'm mid 40s and really don't think there was a social pressure to have children, I really don't know anyone who felt that they had to have children. I know lots of people who had children mid to late 00s and it was an easier time to have DC than when I had my last in the 10s- housing was more affordable, food was more affordable and smart phones weren't distracting everyone and making them miserable. Equally, the quality of my hospital stay the second time around was dire so I could see why nobody would want to repeat that and by all accounts it is much worse now.

Anecdotally, the parents I know who are a lot older with teens tend to treat them like children even when they are really young men or women so at sixth form or uni. I think having children in your twenties makes you realise that you are definitely not children in your twenties and I know that we don't treat our eldest like that and neither does the one other friend we know that had their first in their twenties.

I’m 28. Child free by choice. My list of reasons is extensive.

-Men are too unpredictable. You can marry them and be together for decades. There’s no guarantee they won’t fuck off with the 20 year old co worker and leave you to be a single parent.
-Raising children (in an actual good way) takes a lot more time and effort than modern women have to do it properly.
-Im poor, systematically poor with no way to get out of poverty
-Housing crisis means I can’t even rent for myself, let alone a house big enough for children
-My untreated mental health would not make me a good candidate for parenthood. Our healthcare system is too strained for me to access any help that would help me resolve this.

Honestly there’s more, but that’s just a few of the many reasons.

It’s expensive. People just cannot afford the lifestyles they want with larger families.

It’s not really snarky surely. Just good advice.

Tories, that's the clear reason.

Who is relying on state pensions in this day and age?

Children are a lifestyle choice.

You sound really unhappy and over involved in what other peole do for somebody who apparently has a wonderful successful life lol

If people do a typical three year degree they finish university at 21. Still very young. And even without formal education a lot of people would want to enjoy some ChildFree years before trying to have children (assuming they find a suitable partner.)

@Goldenbear I agree that social pressure to have children has been decreasing for decades-I’m 50 and didn’t feel much pressure either. I think that my parent’s generation did though. Thankfully, most of today’s young adults don’t have any.

Sorry, hard to decipher what you are stating due to spelling and grammar but your comments appear to reflect that you haven't understood what I am pointing out at all- perhaps I haven't explained it very well....

I'm answering the question of the thread title what are you doing? I don't think it is just about more 'choice' as is evidenced by this thread and some people want kids but due to current circumstances can't have them so it is surely the point of this thread to explore why that is.

I don’t understand why this is a problem? Global population is forever increasing, the burden on natural resources is unsustainable. Surely it’s a good thing fertility rates are declining?

I love it when at 3am somebody thinks they can claim some kind of intellectual or moral high ground by pretending to be as thick as muck, and unable to understand something they don't like hearing because a letter is missing from one word. Really shows the quality of a person that. Chefs kiss

@grepes. I think that most people agree that longterm, a declining global population is a good thing

In the short term, it’ll be difficult in 50 years when older people greatly outnumber the young, unless we can develop the necessary technology.