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UK fertility rate drops by 18.8% in 12 years

482 replies

MidnightPatrol · 13/10/2024 20:35

The UK has the fastest falling fertility rate in the G7.

2022 saw the lowest number of births for 20 years.

The current TFR is 1.49 births per woman.

What do you think the reason for this is, and what could be done to reverse the trend?

news.sky.com/story/amp/britains-fertility-rate-falling-faster-than-any-other-g7-country-with-austerity-thought-to-be-a-principal-factor-13232314

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Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 13/10/2024 22:49

Loads of my married female friends aren't having children
They just don't want them!
I think now women are more equal, there is more choice for them not to have kids. I think it's just a simple explanation

biscuitandcake · 13/10/2024 22:51

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/pregnancy/4146717-midwifes-what-do-you-honestly-think-about-people-trying-for-a-baby-during-covid?page=4&reply=104069493

Lots of threads like this circa 2020/2021. People worrying about covid and maternity wards or the impact on the NHS of "taking away nursing staff" for maternity care in 2021=less babies in 2022 (even if lots of people are very nice on that thread)

Covid affected other countries too. But I do wonder if, because of the way we already conceive of the NHS as a single service, (and one for which responsible people don't waste resources unnecessarily) those considerations had more of an impact in the UK than elsewhere.

Page 4 | Midwifes - what do you honestly think about people trying for a baby during Covid? | Mumsnet

I went to reach out of my precious midwife to ask what she knew about ttc and the vaccine, as I'm getting so much conflicted info but I'm worried she'...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/pregnancy/4146717-midwifes-what-do-you-honestly-think-about-people-trying-for-a-baby-during-covid?page=4&reply=104069493

Dotto · 13/10/2024 22:51

There is also less stigma with people admitting parenthood is boring and life-sucking.

Goldenbear · 13/10/2024 22:52

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 13/10/2024 22:49

Loads of my married female friends aren't having children
They just don't want them!
I think now women are more equal, there is more choice for them not to have kids. I think it's just a simple explanation

The social expectation to have children vanished years ago so I don't think it is that.

This country has a uniquely shit approach to childcar provision and most provisions for children and teenagers are dire, I have Scandinavian family and it is a different approach.

MeowCatPleaseMeowBack · 13/10/2024 22:56

Goldenbear · 13/10/2024 22:52

The social expectation to have children vanished years ago so I don't think it is that.

This country has a uniquely shit approach to childcar provision and most provisions for children and teenagers are dire, I have Scandinavian family and it is a different approach.

Birth rates are also dropping at similar rates in Scandanavia, though.

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 13/10/2024 22:57

Goldenbear · 13/10/2024 22:52

The social expectation to have children vanished years ago so I don't think it is that.

This country has a uniquely shit approach to childcar provision and most provisions for children and teenagers are dire, I have Scandinavian family and it is a different approach.

Of the many women I know deciding not to have kids, it's absolutely not down to childcare costs - that doesn't even enter their heads because the "I don't want kids" comes before that so they would never need to even contemplate childcare costs.

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 13/10/2024 22:58

Dotto · 13/10/2024 22:51

There is also less stigma with people admitting parenthood is boring and life-sucking.

Edited

Absolutely. I regularly say in the office having kids is shite. My kids are young and obviously I love them and have fun, but by jobe it's hard work and frustrating too. Im not sure I'd choose to have kids again if I could go back in time and knowing what I now do.

Superhansrantowindsor · 13/10/2024 22:59

Housing costs. It’s absolutely disgusting that there is a lack of social housing. Having a home is a human right but the costs in this country are awful.

KnittedCardi · 13/10/2024 22:59

Many of my cousin's, and nephews and nieces have decided against having children. Lots are unmarried, but those with partners are also disinclined to bring children into the world. They are either not interested, or think the world doesn't need any more children. They are independent and wish to stay that way. None are because of finance.

TheDeepLemonHelper · 13/10/2024 23:01

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This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Tralalalal · 13/10/2024 23:04

Rise in sex change + “strong independent women” focusing more on careers now than making a family

MartinCrieffsLemon · 13/10/2024 23:04

Because people don't want babies and it's probably a good idea we are naturally slowing down before we have to introduce a 1 child policy like China?

Crankyaboutfood · 13/10/2024 23:04

the trend should not be reversed. the earth is at 8 billion people and infinite growth is not possible. people who want children will have them. but no need to incentivize population growth

TheDeepLemonHelper · 13/10/2024 23:05

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

since1986 · 13/10/2024 23:05

Just throwing it out here to come back to in a decade or so...

Watch womens rights be massively eroded in the next few years. I believe they'll limit access to abortion, make birth control harder to get and make noises about improving maternity care and incentives to increase families (though we know they wont).

GoldCat255 · 13/10/2024 23:11

Unsurprising.
Brexit has fucked up the economy for good.
And the worst is yet to come.

ncncncncncnchhh · 13/10/2024 23:14

As someone who didn't have kids....I had a breakdown of a relationship, didn't want to rely on meeting someone for financial security so I bought my own place, focused on my career.

Then had an illness, also Covid got in the way. If you were 40 and single in 2020 that was pretty hard as that was pretty much goodbye to my fertility.

I've now also kind of realised that I've spent many years feeling less than or striving towards having kids, only to realise that I want them less now I'm older. I want to be pregnant even less.

SquirrelSoShiny · 13/10/2024 23:17

MidnightPatrol · 13/10/2024 20:35

The UK has the fastest falling fertility rate in the G7.

2022 saw the lowest number of births for 20 years.

The current TFR is 1.49 births per woman.

What do you think the reason for this is, and what could be done to reverse the trend?

news.sky.com/story/amp/britains-fertility-rate-falling-faster-than-any-other-g7-country-with-austerity-thought-to-be-a-principal-factor-13232314

It's difficult to think of a culture more hostile to families than the UK outside of actual war zones.

Awful maternity care, low wages and high housing / childcare costs, a general hopelessness.

Goldenbear · 13/10/2024 23:18

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 13/10/2024 22:57

Of the many women I know deciding not to have kids, it's absolutely not down to childcare costs - that doesn't even enter their heads because the "I don't want kids" comes before that so they would never need to even contemplate childcare costs.

I didn't state just childcare, any provisions, so maternity care appears dire to when I had my first DC, it would definitely put me off. But of course the over analysis and deliberation over everything wasn't a thing then, we didn't carry around a computer with us 24/7 telling us how to think, act and feel, these things for better or worse had to be worked out by ourselves and this obviously lends itself to more spontaniety. Having children was one of the best things we've ever done but if you are comparing it to buying things or a good career well objectively it isn't going to win. It is not a end goal game that's not where the joy comes from.

Anotherparkingthread · 13/10/2024 23:18

Lots of women have realised that they have other options than being house wives and raising children. Many are now pursuing careers, alternative lifestyles, personal interests and hobbies etc. Some simply prioritise their lifestyle over being self sacrificing to others. Having children is not fashionable enviable or considered a particularly high achievement.

On top of this add in all the disadvantages of having children. Career stagnation or gaps, less free time, much much less disposable income. Emotional and energy drain as well as enormous responsibility. Being tired all the time.

If you want children you also need to find a suitable man who you believe (at least for long enough to conceive) isn't a total waste of space. You then risk being tied to this man for life, regardless of his behaviour. Dating has become harder and people are less likely to marry off young and settle down. It is also higher risk as men are now more likely to leave a marriage or relationship than ever before, meaning that a potential mother could be left raising a child or children alone. Men are under less social obligation to provide or offer a traditional set up where the man is the breadwinner and the woman can focus on raising children. This means most mothers have to work as well, which is exhausting, adds costs like childcare and is a good reason to limit the number of children, so then we see women who would have liked 3 children stopping at 1.

Men are more reluctant to have children in general, meaning that finding not only a suitable solvent man is harder but one who actually wants children or is open to it. Many men value their freedom over raising children and this is a perfectly acceptable stance. Sometimes men are fence sitters and can waste time, meaning that women miss the opportunity to have children by spending their fertile years with the wrong man.

There is enormous social pressure not have children unless it's the right time, eg you have bought a house, have a steady job, have the right kind of support network and partner. Women are more judged than ever by the standard of which they raise their children as well as how they parent meaning that it is a social minefield, with the outspoken, the majority and the vocal minority all telling mothers conflicting advice and how they should or shouldn't do things. People are judged on their children's behaviour. People are judged for not going the extra mile and providing constant activities, clubs and opportunities.

Add to this global instability like current disastrous economic predictions, housing crisis, global issues like war and climate change, lack of job security, the quickly changing industries of tech now that ai will eventually be able to replace most tech jobs, and it paints a bleak picture to bring another person into.

Overall I actually myself can't see a single advantage to having a child. I understand for some people it's instinctual but logically speaking it's a precarious decision to say the least.

BeatsAntique · 13/10/2024 23:20

I was one and done because of the cost, both financially and personally.

I was totally unprepared for how much of myself I would lose by becoming a parent and it terrified me.

Cost of living in the UK is so high and wages compared with other countries are low. If you want to have any kind of career you really need to live in a major city and the cost of housing is extraordinary. I moved abroad when my DC went to college.

The world we’re bringing kids into is challenging and incredibly uncertain. They won’t have the quality of life we had. My DC is undecided about kids and I wouldn’t be at all disappointed if they didn’t have them.

*Edited as hit post too soon.

DodoTired · 13/10/2024 23:21

Well, childcare costs of course!

Goldenbear · 13/10/2024 23:24

Tralalalal · 13/10/2024 23:04

Rise in sex change + “strong independent women” focusing more on careers now than making a family

Is this a joke - all I see is the Inception of a 'trad' movement of women - watched an alarming documentary on that, the rise of mysoginy, an obsession with looks and an erosion of women's rights.

Drawfulofbitz · 13/10/2024 23:26

the trend should not be reversed. the earth is at 8 billion people and infinite growth is not possible. people who want children will have them. but no need to incentivize population growth

no one wants infinite growth but there are problems with ageing populations… we are already seeing the impact here.

GrannyWeatherwaxsHatpin · 13/10/2024 23:27

Tralalalal · 13/10/2024 23:04

Rise in sex change + “strong independent women” focusing more on careers now than making a family

Well I’ve neither changed gender nor am I particularly focused on my career. I just don’t want children.

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