UK fertility rate drops by 18.8% in 12 years

[MidnightPatrol]

The UK has the fastest falling fertility rate in the G7.

2022 saw the lowest number of births for 20 years.

The current TFR is 1.49 births per woman.

What do you think the reason for this is, and what could be done to reverse the trend?

news.sky.com/story/amp/britains-fertility-rate-falling-faster-than-any-other-g7-country-with-austerity-thought-to-be-a-principal-factor-13232314

Crap nhs who would want to risk their own health in their hands on purpose..
Fertility - obviouely having kids later means some cant have them at all
No ivf postcode lottery so lucky to get 1 round so less than 1 dc. Plus waitlists

Having dc is harder than expected -
sen dc.
Years of swimming lessons at least 2y per child. - time and money

Money
Paying for parties £200 and then £10 per party to go to other kids
£100 christmas/birthday presents
Nearly £3 per day school lunch y3-13
£800 per year bus faire at secondary
School trips up to £400 for 2 day residential
Food/heating/nursery
If you go on holiday £500+ per child
Fines for taking kids out of sxhool (rightly)
Huge waitlists for anything nhs.

Issues if your kid doesnt cope with nursery and then before or after clubs

Anyway biggest issue is why do women want to take on all the cooking, cleaning, childcare, reading with dc. On top of working FT?

The main positives are xmas, birthdays, their achievements. But that would all be easier with just 1dc...

Just 2 kids
2x£3 a day lunchx190x11yrs=12540
£200 a yr partiesx5x2kids=£2000
£800 bus fayrex7x2kids=£11200
£1344 for learning to swim total
If paying for before after care
£15 a dayx2x190x7yrs£39900
£200 presents per yr per child x2x18 =so £7200
Uniform
£30x2x14yr school shoes=3600
£50x14yrs uniform =700
Its £25-50 per day per child for holiday club
So 25x2x7yrsxapprox 20days =7000
Say 500 per child holiday every 2yrs maybe 8000
Thats without expectation to pay for uni perhaps £5k/yr per child so £30k
(Scouts is £14 a month per child)

Its a lot and yes some optional, some would get tax free.
But i havent included any nursery costs.
Loss of pay on mat leave.
No normal food costs or clothes..
Really should be spending 20min a day reading with dc for reception - y3 say and then some help with spellings.

Nearly everyone i know did have 2 or more kids only 1-2 in my dc class are only kids.
In fact
1 --2 kids
2 --51 kids
3--- 3 kids
4 3 kids
5+. 1 kid

Other kid class

1. 2 kids
2. 51 kids
3. 6 kids

4 5 1 kid

It is true these 4 kid families are almost all in council houses.

You think the answer to that is keep having more and more children every year?

The expense. The people who can independently afford children have it all taken back in tax and removal of childcare allowance. Other countries subsidise childcare for all. We tax the shit out of decent earners and wonder why they stop having children.

Yep housing and childcare cost is one of the main reasons we are "one and done".

Life has got very expensive and cost of living has especially skyrocketed in the past 3 years whilst our wages have unfortunately not. Currently our outgoings are slightly above our after tax income and eating into savings, (now little one has started reception I can get more hours so hope to break even soon) if we had another child we'd be totally fucked.

The vast majority of taxes are paid by the highest earners. If we kept the highest earners and reduced the number of people who are a net drain on the public purse throughout their lives, we would all be a lot better off.

Where I live people don't generally want babies until their 30s. And are sold a myth that it's easy to get pregnant then.

Actually I'd say the majority of my friends like this have needed ivf.

I also think society is no longer encouraging to families wanting one parent to be at home with the kids. But childcare for multiple kids costs a fortune. Most people I know either don't want to be at home full-time with kids, or don't want to sacrifice their lifestyle/job for it.

I know a few people who had much wanted babies in their early 20s and actually got a fair bit of negative judgement as they were deemed too young.

Cost of living. We would like 3/4, but I don’t think we can afford them.

I think @Macaroninecklace has a good point about the intensity of modern parenting- I'd add that duration may also play a part. Parents are expected to actively parent their late teen/adult children to a far greater extent than they were even 20 years ago.

Because it's rare you can raise children and have a career. Until, we have 50/50 with both raising a family and career, I don't blame women saying 'no thank you'. Until men step up, I think it's sensible not to have kids (yes, yes I know, not all men, but let's be honest far more women are screwed by having kids than men).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001pt5z

I found this episode so interesting about studies suggesting that sperm counts worldwide have dropped 62% in the past 50 years. As yet there is no clear answer as to why that is.

Cost and support does play a big part in when and if people decide to have children and how many, but I also think it is getting more difficult to naturally conceive in general.

And what I find so, so interesting is that younger people simply seem a lot less interested. At their age, go to a party, there was snogging everywhere, people were coupling up all over the place, but I don't get the impression it is quite the same now. I'm obviously entirely out of the loop and my teens obviously tell me next to nothing, but they all seem a great deal more restrained and even sort of disinterested. Is it Japan where they have this issue with young men?

Don't you think people could do all those things 10, 20, 30 years ago?

Since when do children go on the pill at 11+?

I think it’s interesting that when women are in a position to choose, they so often choose not to have children.

Boomers were the first generation with easier access to contraception. Current 20-40 years olds are the first generation to live in a world where it’s socially acceptable to choose not to have children at all.

I would desperately love to have a third child, but we absolutely cannot afford one. I work part time as we have two little children, in a skilled office job. My partner is a teacher. Buying basic things like buying glasses, groceries, utility bills, is already such a challenge, that it wouldn't be fair on our existing children. Plus we'd have no room for them, and obviously can't afford to upsize our house. I'm mid 30s too, so by the time we're less broke, I'll be too old 😭.

Our society does not particularly value children and young families.

Why would that sort of society enable or prioritise child rearing?

The global stats really don't bear out the idea that it's about cost, or even the spectacular drop in sperm counts (probably microplastics / UPFs / endocrine disruptors).

I think it's simply that lots of people just don't want children—there are loads of other options for things to do with your life, and it's socially acceptable to pursue them.

Human history tells us that it will be completely impossible to fix the climate crisis and stop deforestation, so I hope birth rates continue to fall everywhere. I'm childfree, but people with children should be glad of this trend (presuming they don't want their kids to live in a Mad Max-type situation.)

I have quite a few friends who could easily afford to have children, but don’t want to. They have a comfortable home, nice holidays and cars, and are free to spend their weekends as they choose. If work gets stressful, they can stay late to get it done. They think that we are crazy to sacrifice that freedom to have a family.

@MotherOfRatios

I also think a lot of women just see how the burden always falls on them and saying yeah I don't want to do that. I'd rather be in a couple with dual income but no kids

Yeah, this. I have a career, I have hobbies, I like weekends of laying around in bed or doing whatever. I've seen the health of some of my female friends absolutely destroyed by having children - birth injuries, stress, neglecting themselves. I don't want that for me.

Starved out.

Can’t afford housing or childcare.

End of.

I used to want a huge family. My birth family weren’t great, and I had fantasies of an adoring husband and six kids.

When I grew up, I had so many physical and mental health problems that I realised I wasn’t equipped to be a good parent. I did online dating for 25 years and never found anyone I’d have trusted to co-parent with.

I focused on making a full life for myself instead and now I feel incredibly lucky NOT to have children. Climate change and mass migration terrify me - I’m glad I won’t be around for the worst bits, and I’m glad I don’t have kids to worry about.

Interestingly, I had stage 4 endo for 25 years and eventually had a total hysterectomy when I was in my late 40s. My surgeon told me I would never have been able to get pregnant anyway!

You’re assume they struggle to get pregnant because of the woman’s fertility, but male fertility is rapidly dropping, so there’s a good chance that for at least some of these couples, her age isn’t the reason.

I rented in flatshares until I was 30!

Pretty standard in London.

Not when you're old and there aren't enough working-age people to pay your pension.