To feel that remote working should be a right, not a privilege?

[AlertBird]

With the advances in technology, it seems outdated that so many companies still require employees to come into the office for jobs that could easily be done remotely. AIBU to think that, for jobs where possible, remote working should be a right, not a privilege? It could help with work-life balance and reduce stress, but a lot of employers seem stuck in their old ways of thinking.

Yet their work and priorities and projects are managed out of western countries. They essentially work remotely out of an office

Nope. Their function may be managed out of the UK/US, although this is increasingly rare. Their management and reporting line is solely within India, and they are responsible for all their own training and development. The only time the UK offices were involved was when they initially went over there to transfer out the function at the time.

IB Sales can also wfh.

I’ve noticed since Covid everywhere you go seems relentlessly busy these days, all day 7 days a week. There was a time when if you went into Tesco or your local out of town retail park on, say,a Monday morning it would be fairly quiet. Not anymore.

We're turning into that photo that goes around social media, that people are always horrified by - a massive tower block containing everything so no one ever needs to go outside. It's not healthy to sleep, eat, work, socialise all in one or two rooms and all on a screen.

I've got a friend who is hybrid. On her home days, she messages me constantly and she'll send photos of things she's seen when she's "popped to the shops" or walked the dog. On her office days, she's uncontactable.

I'm a childminder and the amount of parents who collect between meetings or only book a couple of days because they're WFH the other days...

I know it's better for some people but there must be a massive level of taking the piss that is ruining businesses.

As a company, we are in the office two days a week. It really is beneficial for us all to be in the same place. During lockdown one set of drawings was on its 76th revision because the team couldn't sit round the table together and discuss it.

You are confusing terms and conditions with rights.

Should remote working be part of the terms and conditions of roles that can accommodate it - absolutely.

Should it be a right? No because a right by definition applies to everyone regardless of circumstance.

It is a terminology issue rather than an idea issue.

But does that actually happen? Great concept - but in reality, if an employer can have staff anywhere, the employment pool becomes much wider than the North of England - and the work ethic in parts of that employment pool is much much higher...

Even if they still employ within the UK - if staff are now living in a cheaper location and with no commuting costs - don't expect salaries to stay the same - sure they might initially, but the annualised increases will reduce and you will then have people back on low salaries in more remote areas...

The Civil Service is a very poor example - ever since Covid customer service and actually getting the task done has fallen off a cliff with the Civil Service - Passport Office / HMRC / DVLA - three examples that have been repeatedly in the news with staff cancelling phone calls mid way through to answer the door to the Amazon delivery driver etc. They beyond all other organisations have demonstrated the worst examples of home working - but I guess it isn't their money and they will get paid anyway while they do less and less work...

No - if you want to level up - it is simple, staff to work in the office and then give companies incentives to move their offices out of London - give the big four tax breaks to set up offices specifically in the North West and suddenly you do actually shift wealth around the country... but currently we have an agenda driven by a political party run by the unions and supported by work-shy people who want the free money from Covid to continue... hardly surprising that we are rapidly bankrupting our country!

Whilst I can and do work remotely now. My career would never have taken off if I had started out with everyone remote, unable to see who does what, unable to sit next to someone and see what they do, no access to conversations outside my own, not able to ask a question and have a second and third person join the conversation.

I really feel for anyone starting their career now.

I WFH and miss some elements of work including the social and networking, talking and learning from others, random silly stuff and even having to get up, dressed and out of the house to a routine.
it’s harder to create and stick to your own routine on your own space as well

not everyone has the luxury of space in their own home to focus fully on work - it impact family space and time as well so need to be mindful of that when talking about work life balance

Of course it shouldn't be a 'right' FFS.

Would you have said this before the Covid pandemic?

No you wouldn't.

Disagree for new roles entirely. I work remotely in a specific field that doesn’t need others in reality but it’s soooooo much more challenging without office infrastructure and networking, support of colleagues shouldn’t be overlooked either.

This is an excellent site for explaining all the changes proposed by Labour.

Lewis Silkin - What’s in the Employment Rights Bill?

Home working will not be a right but employers will have to give more consideration to flexible working and to have a very good business reason for refusing.

The move to WFH has been pretty rubbish for customers.

So if there's an element of customer or client facing work, then I can understand why some companies aren't keen.

Fancy your kids' school teachers or your GP working from home? Of course you don't!

I think it’s completely up the employer what works for them. I work 2 in the office, 3 at home, but let’s not pretend that remote working is good in every situation or that there aren’t disadvantages. Just because something can be done doesn’t always mean that it should be.

Sorry if others have made the point already. I have a friend who works in banking. She is being made redundant and they are moving the whole office to Romania. I rang a customer work line for Aldi recently and the lady I spoke to was in South Africa. No Aldis there.
If it can be done from home it can be done anywhere.
Secondly, there are the smug posters who point out teachers knew what they were getting into. Indeed they do know now, it is why teacher recruitment is at rock bottom. It is not just the teaching load, it is things like DofE weekends, accompanying trips for educational purposes. Year 6, Year 4 residentials.
Why do it when the Civil Service offers the same financial rewards for WFH and much easier work loads.
All the, WFH should be a right brigade, need to take the rap when secondary schools become remote etc.
It is a dangerous attack on society. Seeing each other is an essential part of being human.

Idk

I have a hybrid office / wfh job and I think it works best that way.

There is definitely benefit in being in the same place as others some of the time. And it’s awful for new starters/ those new to the industry to never meet with experienced people.

This. And it’s nothing to do with being old-fashioned. A lot of work is collaborative and good ideas emerge by bouncing ideas around in person and often informally. This sort of working sociability can’t be replicated online.

And it’s awful for new starters/ those new to the industry to never meet with experienced people.

This 100%

I agree OP - my job can’t be done remotely, but the fact that DH’s can MASSIVELY improves our family life and our work-life balance. Brill!

Lots of people aren't bothered, I get advocating and prioritising yourself, but it's why I think hybrid is by far the best model. Lots of my old team couldn't be bothered coming in hardly at all, yet some of our new starters said they learnt better going through stuff in person. Were still reluctant to come into office even a day a week, so I said ill come in and support them but I either want a pay rise to reflect this additional work and/or some of my regular workload to be given to others in the team to make it fair. They weren't best pleased, but still couldn't be arsed to come in.

Six of one and half a dozen of the other. I do two days from home, three in the office.

Some meetings need to be F2F, community is important, sitting next to Nellie is a very effective learning tool. As a senior manager I find it takes far more time to teams someone for quick info or a quick heads up than a quick exchange as I walk through the office. Seeing staff is very important for knowing how they are/what's going on.

I like the separation that comes with going in and I also value wfh if I have a Dr's apt/Dentist app/boiler service, etc.

WFH is easy for me because I had a dedicated study, good Internet and can afford to have the heating on. Going in is also easy because I can park at work and it's 25 minutes in the car. I might feel differently if travel took 90 minutes and involved two trains and a bus.

Overall different strokes for different folks and they work when there is motivation and strong leadership.

DD has all her teaching this year on Monday/Tuesday and Thursday/Friday. Her school is flexible and she does her prep/marking/admin at home on Wednesdays which is a massive flex on the part of the school. BUT she flexed and agreed to teach seven sessions on Tuesdays to support them and is the go.to in emergencies.

Overall I think people need to be careful what they wish for and fir those in London/SE I think a switch to fully remote working will lead to new contracts without London Weighting and changes to other benefits being introduced.

Honestly though I am still working full-time in my mid 60s. I don't think I could do it if I had to go in using public transport five days a week.

I think WFH seems to work better for those who are more established in their careers or who have family commitments. For those starting out I am not sure it is a good thing.

As other PPs have said younger workers may not have suitable conditions for home working as they may be living in a flat share. I also don't think you build connections just talking to people on screens. Some of the best friends I made were when I started working in the days when being in the office 5 days a week was the norm. We used to socialise after work.

I've also noticed the tendency for people not to switch their cameras on during Zoom calls. I attended some Zoom training the other day and apart from the person leading the meeting I had no idea what the other people looked like and there was very little interaction.

I agree that hybrid working definitely has its place but I think as a society we are really in danger of becoming less able to interact socially with others.

Be careful what you wish for.

WFH increases women's burden.

Source Understanding Society participant update Oct 24

And it’s awful for new starters/ those new to the industry to never meet with experienced people.

I recognise this and yet I don't care. Maybe I'm selfish. I've done my years in an office, training and mentoring new starters. I've had enough. My skills/experience are in demand so I'll do what's best for me now. I'm maybe 10 years from retirement and I've no intention of working from an office again. I've not been to an office since 2017.

In a job where hybrid or working from home/remote working is possible it should be considered to be something that’s a good option without major reservation on the part of the employer