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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

First 100 days

700 replies

Iwishicouldflyhigh · 12/10/2024 10:08

whoever you voted for, what are your thoughts after the First 100 Days?
I didn’t vote for Labour, but I was quite excited in their first few weeks as Keir got his head down and I was excited fir change.

Now I just feel deflated. Same old….freebiegate, nitpicking, infighting. A bit depressing really.

i don’t even think there was a decent alternative really….and that’s even more depressing!!!!!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
GherkinJar · 15/10/2024 08:26

iamtheblcksheep · 12/10/2024 11:22

I’m not making it difficult for anyone. I’m protecting what I’ve earned. If you want more money get a second and third job until you have what you need. Two generations ago my family was very poor. I’ve earned every penny I have. You will never make me feel guilty for that.

Increasing rents on your excessive properties isn't work 😅

GherkinJar · 15/10/2024 08:32

ThatbloodyRoblox · 14/10/2024 21:18

I dislike the term net drainers. Not everyone is a high earner. Many people who are high earners rely massively on those who they look down on as net drainers
Do any of you Imagine if you had to do the caring, make your own sandwiches, drive your own bus, do your own cleaning, educate your own children, look after your own health needs how your wage may be impacted. These are people you call net drainers.... weirdly though they shouldn't have a rise to make them able to pay more because then it is Unions being unfair.
Everyone deserves a good wage, the reason we don't have this is mainly the ridiculous housing policy we have in this country, where people cannot work in a low wage job and afford the rent without support.
Employers know that the wage will be made up ( to stop people being on the streets and in poverty)
The ideological of "work pays" when it doesn't if you need 85% childcare top up from UC.
Most people just want to get on and are happy to work to do that. If you are upset at "Net drainers "it is those working hard that are actually causing this and making those choices?
Remember 38% UC claimants are working and housing element is generally needed with that wage.

Yep, I massively enable my partner to be one of the few net contributors (high earner, no kids) because I have many skills that aren't well valued economically in our society, and his skills are.

He also supports me which means the state doesn't have to.

PinkFruitbat · 15/10/2024 08:59

ThatbloodyRoblox · 15/10/2024 08:20

@pinkfruit I don't understand your statement re dead wood and subsidies for employees wages. If 38% of people working and need to claim Universal Credit that is r a couple of " dead wood" companies is it.
What do we do with the 38% of UC claimants who are working a lot and still the costs of rent, childcare etc doesn't pay enough for them to live on?

The point I am making is that lots of businesses are only viable by paying low wages; topped up by benefits.

If minimum wages were to increase (which I think they should) these businesses may go out of business.

These businesses are therefore only viable by exploiting the current system.They are dead wood.

Natural selection in an open market would lead to the best run and fittest businesses surviving and thriving (filling the gap).

Shakeoffyourchains · 15/10/2024 09:05

PinkFruitbat · 14/10/2024 17:16

Well currently less than half of all UK households contribute more in taxes than they receive in benefits/services. I would think it wants to be more like 2/3rds contributing. Stick another 10% on the basic rate of income tax would probably do it.

The top 1% in the UK hold around 24% of all wealth. The top 10% hold more than the bottom 90% combined (the bottom 50% hold less than 9%). Billionaires in the UK have more than trebled their total worth since 2013 and we're approaching Victorian levels of wealth inequality (only today's rich aren't building schools, parks, libraries, etc to gift to the people).

If you want a more equal distribution of 'net contributors' you need to first ensure there is a more equal distribution of wealth, and that can only be achieved by taken the excessive wealth from the 10% and redistributing it to the other 90%.

Rockalittle78 · 15/10/2024 09:08

Shakeoffyourchains · 15/10/2024 09:05

The top 1% in the UK hold around 24% of all wealth. The top 10% hold more than the bottom 90% combined (the bottom 50% hold less than 9%). Billionaires in the UK have more than trebled their total worth since 2013 and we're approaching Victorian levels of wealth inequality (only today's rich aren't building schools, parks, libraries, etc to gift to the people).

If you want a more equal distribution of 'net contributors' you need to first ensure there is a more equal distribution of wealth, and that can only be achieved by taken the excessive wealth from the 10% and redistributing it to the other 90%.

Why stop there?

Let’s simply go for full-blown communism.

PinkFruitbat · 15/10/2024 09:09

Rockalittle78 · 15/10/2024 09:08

Why stop there?

Let’s simply go for full-blown communism.

LOL

EasternStandard · 15/10/2024 09:11

Shakeoffyourchains · 15/10/2024 09:05

The top 1% in the UK hold around 24% of all wealth. The top 10% hold more than the bottom 90% combined (the bottom 50% hold less than 9%). Billionaires in the UK have more than trebled their total worth since 2013 and we're approaching Victorian levels of wealth inequality (only today's rich aren't building schools, parks, libraries, etc to gift to the people).

If you want a more equal distribution of 'net contributors' you need to first ensure there is a more equal distribution of wealth, and that can only be achieved by taken the excessive wealth from the 10% and redistributing it to the other 90%.

We do have a tax system that takes more from the top centiles already but if you’re just going for a complete take you’ll have to factor in people just opting out.

They do have a choice and it will have an impact on behaviour.

user1471516498 · 15/10/2024 09:18

PinkFruitbat · 14/10/2024 21:58

Business taxes also get cut. Which softens the impact. Some will raise costs, some will go out of business. There will be some pain, but what you end up with are healthy businesses in room to grow.

Cut taxes, cut spending, chop the dead wood, let unviable enterprises fold and nurture ones which are viable and enriching. This is what will balance spending AND grow the economy.

You do realise that your "dead wood" would include just about all of the hospitality sector?

ThatbloodyRoblox · 15/10/2024 09:21

"The point I am making is that lots of businesses are only viable by paying low wages; topped up by benefits.

If minimum wages were to increase (which I think they should) these businesses may go out of business.

These businesses are therefore only viable by exploiting the current system.They are dead wood.

Natural selection in an open market would lead to the best run and fittest businesses surviving and thriving (filling the gap)."
But the UC top ups would still be needed as if everyone put up wages to x amount then that means childcare would also go up to x amount so a top up would still be needed plus can you imagine the crisis in essential but lower paid work eg care homes if they all shut up shop.
You say slash welfare can you tell me what that looks like? Who are we slashing this money from?

PinkFruitbat · 15/10/2024 09:25

ThatbloodyRoblox · 15/10/2024 09:21

"The point I am making is that lots of businesses are only viable by paying low wages; topped up by benefits.

If minimum wages were to increase (which I think they should) these businesses may go out of business.

These businesses are therefore only viable by exploiting the current system.They are dead wood.

Natural selection in an open market would lead to the best run and fittest businesses surviving and thriving (filling the gap)."
But the UC top ups would still be needed as if everyone put up wages to x amount then that means childcare would also go up to x amount so a top up would still be needed plus can you imagine the crisis in essential but lower paid work eg care homes if they all shut up shop.
You say slash welfare can you tell me what that looks like? Who are we slashing this money from?

There would need to be a phased transition over multiple years. That starts with a National plan. We need to transition our economy into a high wage, high growth, high innovation model.

There would be NO slashing of welfare. As people are lifted out of low wages they would be lifted out of receiving welfare top ups.

Back on thread point; Labour has no plan. At best they will manage a continued decline.

Shakeoffyourchains · 15/10/2024 09:27

Rockalittle78 · 15/10/2024 09:08

Why stop there?

Let’s simply go for full-blown communism.

Because I'm not advocating for communism. It's says a lot about you that you are unable to see that. I find it strange that you'd advocate for a system that doesn't benefit you and that causes significant and increasing social and health issues.

Why would you rather live in a society that allows less than 660,000 people to accumulate more money than they'll be able to spend in 100 lifetimes while children go hungry? Would the lives of the 660k really be so awful if the just had enough for 20 lifetimes instead?

PinkFruitbat · 15/10/2024 09:32

Shakeoffyourchains · 15/10/2024 09:27

Because I'm not advocating for communism. It's says a lot about you that you are unable to see that. I find it strange that you'd advocate for a system that doesn't benefit you and that causes significant and increasing social and health issues.

Why would you rather live in a society that allows less than 660,000 people to accumulate more money than they'll be able to spend in 100 lifetimes while children go hungry? Would the lives of the 660k really be so awful if the just had enough for 20 lifetimes instead?

What is stopping you from becoming one of those 600 thousand ultra successful?

EasternStandard · 15/10/2024 09:41

Shakeoffyourchains · 15/10/2024 09:27

Because I'm not advocating for communism. It's says a lot about you that you are unable to see that. I find it strange that you'd advocate for a system that doesn't benefit you and that causes significant and increasing social and health issues.

Why would you rather live in a society that allows less than 660,000 people to accumulate more money than they'll be able to spend in 100 lifetimes while children go hungry? Would the lives of the 660k really be so awful if the just had enough for 20 lifetimes instead?

How will you take it and how will you stop people just going somewhere more attractive tax wise

The top centiles pay much if the tax burden so you’d need a plan for that going

You can tax, obviously this happens looking at receipts, but you’ll need a way not to cause people to opt out

Rummly · 15/10/2024 09:43

Tax debates often descend into this sort of hyperbole.

Societies need to collect tax. Wealthier people pay more tax and always have done. The tax burden will rise and fall. Tax policy will both target and give relief to different areas of generation, use and consumption as priorities change.

But excessive or badly thought out tax can be counterproductive. And wastefulness in government spending generates strong opposition among tax payers.

None of this is controversial.

Rockalittle78 · 15/10/2024 09:47

Shakeoffyourchains · 15/10/2024 09:27

Because I'm not advocating for communism. It's says a lot about you that you are unable to see that. I find it strange that you'd advocate for a system that doesn't benefit you and that causes significant and increasing social and health issues.

Why would you rather live in a society that allows less than 660,000 people to accumulate more money than they'll be able to spend in 100 lifetimes while children go hungry? Would the lives of the 660k really be so awful if the just had enough for 20 lifetimes instead?

Yours is binary GCSE economics.

We don’t live in an egalitarian world. The ability for some to make inordinate wealth is predicated on access to capital, on risk appetite, on the ability to spot market dislocations etc. You cannot teach this.

If you don’t want this wealth in your society, fine - tax it out - there are other jurisdictions that will happily take it.

I work in wealth so I know what I’m talking about - not some ethereal concept.

Rockalittle78 · 15/10/2024 09:48

Rummly · 15/10/2024 09:43

Tax debates often descend into this sort of hyperbole.

Societies need to collect tax. Wealthier people pay more tax and always have done. The tax burden will rise and fall. Tax policy will both target and give relief to different areas of generation, use and consumption as priorities change.

But excessive or badly thought out tax can be counterproductive. And wastefulness in government spending generates strong opposition among tax payers.

None of this is controversial.

What is controversial is the disingenuous rationale
given for Labours fiscal policy.

Lets say it as it is.

nearlylovemyusername · 15/10/2024 09:54

Rockalittle78 · 15/10/2024 06:36

Unemployed people will be given weight-loss jabs under Government plans to get them back to work.
Wes Streeting, the Health Secretary, has said the new class of medication could have a “monumental” impact on obesity and getting Britain working.

Edited

Please say it's a joke.
This can't be true FGS!

Rockalittle78 · 15/10/2024 09:56

nearlylovemyusername · 15/10/2024 09:54

Please say it's a joke.
This can't be true FGS!

Sadly not.

Wes Streetings latest brain fart.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/10/2024 09:58

Tiredalwaystired · 14/10/2024 16:50

If you’re against the richest people taken the largest burden who DO you think should bear the biggest burden instead? Genuine question.

Oh oh oh I can answer this, Disabled people, after the succes of us getting the country out of the 2008 global financial crisis, God forbid rich people or pensioners should pay their share, I literally eat 3 meals some days so that's an extravagance right there, I can only afford heating a few days out of the months so I'm sure I could shave off a bit there and haven't bought any new clothes in over a decade but I haven't sold any of them either so that's on me

Tory melts with very poor memories scattered all over this thread are hilarious

nearlylovemyusername · 15/10/2024 10:03

Shakeoffyourchains · 15/10/2024 09:27

Because I'm not advocating for communism. It's says a lot about you that you are unable to see that. I find it strange that you'd advocate for a system that doesn't benefit you and that causes significant and increasing social and health issues.

Why would you rather live in a society that allows less than 660,000 people to accumulate more money than they'll be able to spend in 100 lifetimes while children go hungry? Would the lives of the 660k really be so awful if the just had enough for 20 lifetimes instead?

Britain relies on just 1M top earners for £124bn in income tax (bmmagazine.co.uk)

nearlylovemyusername · 15/10/2024 10:07

Rockalittle78 · 15/10/2024 09:56

Sadly not.

Wes Streetings latest brain fart.

Seems to be the last straw for high earners to go on strike.

To fund this as well?????

Shakeoffyourchains · 15/10/2024 10:10

EasternStandard · 15/10/2024 09:11

We do have a tax system that takes more from the top centiles already but if you’re just going for a complete take you’ll have to factor in people just opting out.

They do have a choice and it will have an impact on behaviour.

We’re not talking about the top % of earners here; they’re an almost entirely different group from the top % of wealth holders. Someone earning £100k or £200k a year wouldn't be a target in my mind, it would be those who hold significant wealth.

Take UK billionaires, for example, of which there are 170 or so. Combined, they hold around £653 billion in wealth (an increase of £31bn from last year and £150bn between 2020 and 2020, so an average growth of £45bn pa). If we play conservatively and say that the £31bn increase is a more representative annual growth rate, then we should be implementing policies that capture a majority of that.

Taking 70% of that annual increase would generate the £22bn needed to plug budget "black hole" and it would do that by only impacting 170 people. Not only that it wouldn't even negatively impact them as their underlying capital wouldn't be touched AND they'd still be increasing their overall wealth too.

Yet there’s still opposition from the average person on this, which I find astonishing. I just can't understand why anyone can justify a tiny number of people holding so much wealth when we have so many issues in our society.

And even if you’re right, and implementing such policies causes billionaires to threaten to leave or opt out (the stats don't back this up btw, with 85% of billionaires living in their home countries, regardless of tax regimes). The solution is already well-established and in plain sight.

We'd just need to do what America does: make it so that, if you're a UK citizen, you pay UK taxes regardless of where you live. We could also borrow from countries like Denmark, Switzerland, the UAE, China, Thailand, India, South Korea, and others, which restrict non-citizens from owning land, property and assets.

This would further deter any attempts to circumvent such taxation. There’s no need to let wealth simply flow out of the country—we can close these loopholes and maintain a fairer system for all.

Rockalittle78 · 15/10/2024 10:11

nearlylovemyusername · 15/10/2024 10:07

Seems to be the last straw for high earners to go on strike.

To fund this as well?????

They clearly have a magic money tree.

Save the NHS - whatever the cost!

Rockalittle78 · 15/10/2024 10:14

Shakeoffyourchains · 15/10/2024 10:10

We’re not talking about the top % of earners here; they’re an almost entirely different group from the top % of wealth holders. Someone earning £100k or £200k a year wouldn't be a target in my mind, it would be those who hold significant wealth.

Take UK billionaires, for example, of which there are 170 or so. Combined, they hold around £653 billion in wealth (an increase of £31bn from last year and £150bn between 2020 and 2020, so an average growth of £45bn pa). If we play conservatively and say that the £31bn increase is a more representative annual growth rate, then we should be implementing policies that capture a majority of that.

Taking 70% of that annual increase would generate the £22bn needed to plug budget "black hole" and it would do that by only impacting 170 people. Not only that it wouldn't even negatively impact them as their underlying capital wouldn't be touched AND they'd still be increasing their overall wealth too.

Yet there’s still opposition from the average person on this, which I find astonishing. I just can't understand why anyone can justify a tiny number of people holding so much wealth when we have so many issues in our society.

And even if you’re right, and implementing such policies causes billionaires to threaten to leave or opt out (the stats don't back this up btw, with 85% of billionaires living in their home countries, regardless of tax regimes). The solution is already well-established and in plain sight.

We'd just need to do what America does: make it so that, if you're a UK citizen, you pay UK taxes regardless of where you live. We could also borrow from countries like Denmark, Switzerland, the UAE, China, Thailand, India, South Korea, and others, which restrict non-citizens from owning land, property and assets.

This would further deter any attempts to circumvent such taxation. There’s no need to let wealth simply flow out of the country—we can close these loopholes and maintain a fairer system for all.

You clearly know nothing about the kind of wealth to which you refer.

Here’s an initial question for you. How is the majority of billionaires wealth held?

nearlylovemyusername · 15/10/2024 10:22

@Shakeoffyourchains

Take UK billionaires, for example, of which there are 170 or so. Combined, they hold around £653 billion in wealth (an increase of £31bn from last year and £150bn between 2020 and 2020, so an average growth of £45bn pa). If we play conservatively and say that the £31bn increase is a more representative annual growth rate, then we should be implementing policies that capture a majority of that.
Taking 70% of that annual increase would generate the £22bn needed to plug budget "black hole" and it would do that by only impacting 170 people.

France did this some years ago. Moved back pronto after exodus of this wealth from country.
Hollande's 75% 'Supertax' Failure A Blow To Piketty's Economics (forbes.com)
Ironically Britain benefitted from this move, there is a substantial community of wealthy French who flee France when this was introduced and never returned back. They brought a lot of taxes to UK instead. I'm close friends with two of such families - they plan on moving abroad again.

The problem is that you can't tax super wealthy - they are mobile. Consider exit tax and you will never attract anyone to entry.

What Labour are going to do is to tax high earners even more, those ones who are less mobile. Will see how much tax you'll get out of this.
Let's compare notes in 2029. I bet it's not going to be pretty.