Ex doesn’t return property

[GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing]

Trying not to drop feed or be over long:

I share two children with exh - dd15 and dd10. Dd15 is responsible for her own property so less of an issue - she has a key to both houses. Exh
lives two streets away with partner and two very small children - this is not an issue just setting the scene.

DS10 is at primary. Can’t physically take all his property to school every day. Has hobbies after school requiring equipment such as electric guitar, cubs uniform etc

School have recently decided on Weds and Fri yr 6 will spend the whole day in PE kit. Necessitating different clothes on different, non-consecutive days. DS spends every Thursday night and EOW with exh. Doesn’t want to be there more, if anything would happily go less.

Ex does not buy any school uniform or pE kit, save football boots. He bought DS’s much needed laptop as a Christmas present but I buy most things DS needs.

Pays maintenance but has reduced it several times since court order was made (but more than CMS figure - just). I’ve taken him to court to enforce maintenance twice with success - but he negotiates at the last minute so no deduction of earnings.

Exh does not return property even when he says he will.

He will not communicate properly about it - blocked me on WhatsApp as he “doesn’t want lots of messages”. Says he will use email but doesn’t reply to emails ever or not for a long time, and then only to eg one aspect of an email with more than one question. Doesn’t answer his phone.

I have suggested co parenting apps but apparently that’s inconvenient to him.

Suggested a set, written routine to remove necessity for communication (as he says he dislikes it) - but won’t engage. Likes flexibility to do everything last minute - or not at all - and on his own terms.

It’s really stressing me out! I want DS to have the right equipment for school and hobbies - there’s no reason that shouldn’t be possible. I already buy more sets of everything that a couple would have to buy between them to try to have some of it, sometimes.

What do I do? Stop sending DS? Seems a shame as he should have a relationship with Dad and siblings

We both have busy full time jobs, hybrid working.

Sorry this is long and sure I’ve also forgotten some things!

Less of an AIBU than WWYD

DS is 10, what does he want to do?

At that age he should be the one saying "Dad, I need PE kit / guitar / whatever it is"

My ex is the same, refuses for me to have any contact details bar address. Won't speak to me at all. I've had to let the boys navigate that for themselves, I don't buy replacements for things he hasn't returned though.

It's taught the boys to take care of their own things although I'd rather they had learnt it a nicer way.

One thing I forgot - DS has ADHD, so does need some help with organisation (although of course this doesn’t mean he doesn’t need to learn)

It’s difficult for him to be solely in charge of this because he is at school all day and also is too young to go round to exh by himself - only just but we are in London so very busy roads.

And he’s not allowed to take his phone with him to school so that becomes one of the items that needs exchanging if he’s going to communicate with us both.

But I take on board maybe getting DS more involved in the messaging.

He gets frustrated with his dad too.

Sorry - and another thing exh hasn’t returned is DS’s key to my house. He doesn’t have a key to exh’s although Dd does - but she is adamantly against any facilitating.

This sounds as much an issue of DS being disorganised and forgetful as ex-H not returning things - is he perhaps trying to teach DS to be more careful with his property? As he only lives two streets away, can you send DS around with DD before or after school to collect anything he forgot or didn’t take to school / bring home with him? Thinking about stopping DS from seeing his dad seems overkill given what’s actually happening.

I don't really understand what's going on. Does your ex keep all of your son's stuff and refuse to return it? So you send your son with his scout uniform and your ex keeps the scout uniform. You send a guitar and he keeps the guitar.

Unless scouts or guitar lessons often change then would it be better to keep them at his?

Do you have to keep buying scout uniforms as your ex loses them?

What do you need to contact him about? Things he needs for school the next day? Can you share an online calendar and put in "Tuesday 12 October son needs to take PE kit" or does he refuse to use calendars?

Sorry OP, I'm a bit confused.

He’s really not doing anything as helpful as trying to teach ds anything! He’s just really disorganised.

As mentioned m, Dd doesn’t really like to be involved.

DS can’t take large items like an electric guitar to school with him, esp not if then having to walk back to after school club (not at the school)

Sorry for drip feed but last time I took DS round to get something and only DS went in, exh screamed at him and swore.

Hes also very restrictive about the kids going in in the evening due to the younger ones’ bedtime.

I must be explaining really badly sorry!

Yes re I send him with eg cub uniform or guitar - and then I don’t have it for the following occasion (usually the guitar as cubs is on a Weds but guitar on a Thursday - not at school, in a church where asc also is)

It’s school uniform or PE kit that piles up there most. Made worse by school requiring them to come in in different things on Friday than on Thursday .

I send as much as poss to school with ds, but he can’t take everything to school.

Maybe the problem is life being too complicated if I’m struggling to explain.

A shared calendar would be brilliant but has previously been rejected by ex as “another thing I have to check”

Just had to send Dd round to get his guitar and give it to him at after school club.

Please do not say that I sound disorganised. I am very organised. Exh is blocking me from being organised hence the stress.

And it wasn’t all ok in the end, as I am meant to be working/ Dd has a meeting now.

Does this never become your ex's problem? If DS doesn't have PE kit for Fri then what does he do? If ex brings him to yours is it worth moving one drop off to you collecting, so you can run down a list of stuff on ex's doorstep and DS can go straight back and grab forgotten things? Reduce opportunity to "fail" - you'd be supporting him in succeeding rather than finding out stuff is missing when it's too late to recover.

It's not fair though, of course it's not, for you or DS.

The school uniform, PE kit and cubs stuff I think DS does need to remember to pack up and take with him to school the following day - does he have a phone or a watch you can set a reminder alarm on so that he doesn’t leave things behind? It seems that what you want is for ex to collect up all DS’s things at his house and then bring them all back to you - which I don’t think is reasonable especially as DS gets older.

The guitar there are really only two options: either ex brings it to you or you go and collect it. I don’t think it’s more ex’s responsibility to bring it to you than it is yours to collect it, it’s just one of those things that somebody has to do if DS wants lessons. If neither of you want the hassle of returning / collecting his guitar then you’ll need to tell him that he can’t have lessons.

"Please do not say that I sound disorganised. I am very organised."

You don't at all sound disorganised.

If it becomes exh’s problem, what he will do is come round for the item at the last possible moment - often either when I’m asleep (I have sleep problems so really value one slightly later morning) or out.

I’m considering a laminated tick list and just writing a routine myself but it does feel like having the whole mental load again!

Oh thanks so much - you seem to have understood my stressed ramblings best!

I would happily collect it but he doesn’t communicate re timings - which is why I suggested the fixed routine. He doesn’t give any thought to how DS will get the guitar because he ultimately doesn’t care if DS gets to do his hobby in a meaningful way. Although he’s happy with the extra childcare I pay for on his day (used to be my day but he persuaded me Thursday was better as it attaches to the weekend).

DS can only do the work of returning things when he comes back from ex after a weekend - as I keep saying, he can’t take it all into school.

Can school allow ds to change from pe kit to uniform before home time, then he wears it in the next day? Does he have to take his phone?

If you go down the check list route for ds, you can get slidy personalised lists, so he can check it off as he packs it.

Please don’t put it on your DD to manage it for your husband / son.

the clothes should be manageable to take in and out of school. Perhaps not ideal but also not the end of the world if he doesn’t have his scouts uniform occasionally. Or is wearing full uniform instead of PE kit. My daughter school is really strict but at 9 if she wants to wear her grey flares on a black PE shorts day I let it up to her.

guitar is slightly trickier I guess. Can you change the lesson day or leave it in a safe ish space outside he getting it doesn’t disturb you. Although rubbish that it’s still you having to be the organised one. Really I’d talk to DS about either him managing it or giving it up I’m afraid - there are bigger battles to use your energy on than a guitar.

Plus either ditch the childcare or send him the bill if it’s exs day no?

I don’t put it on my dd. Honestly - I don’t. She just helped me out this one time with the keys - when I’ve said she’s not keen, that’s in response to other posters suggesting it.

Ive now written out a routine to give to DS and a list of kit. Also giving it to the exh as it highlights the two points in the week where we need any contact at all.

Im grateful to all posters as this has been helpful - and helped me crystallise in my mind what DS should and can be doing himself, what does still need that bit of parental input (really just re guitar, computer and phone), and how to go about helpful DS get organised (bearing in mind his ADHD)

Sorry - by extra childcare I mean the rock guitar group!

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing would it not be easier to just simply move the other night ds goes to dad. eg tues if normal school uniform and no hobbies on tues or wed?

By year 5/6 my kids were packing what they needed for their dad's house and packing to return to me on their own as well.
In less than 12 months he's going to have to know what books he needs each day for what lessons etc.
Honestly you can remind your EXh but get your son to start taking responsibility - if he forgets then he doesn't go to the club; they soon learn.

My suggestion is ask the school if they can help facilitate. If he’s not allowed his phone to school ask if he can switch it off and leave in bag or hand in at the office. Most schools round here allow y5/6 to hand phones in as many walk home alone and need their phones for the journey. My kids have also taken their tablets to school on their bags. No one really needed to know. But I’ve taken a big bag for life to school before now with things that need taking to dad’s and back. To be honest though since high school he’s really stopped bothering with kid week seeing my kids so less of an issue.

We did have issues with the every other week thing when we needed brownie uniform or gym uniform back for the between week. For some things I bought two. But things like brownie/cub uniform it’s harder as they have their badges etc sewn on and sometimes a badge book and bag to take. We had an issue with guitars at one point. So ended up buying a cheap second to leave there. He also had all school uniform at his (I used to buy and supply) but we did sometimes need to reconvene every few weeks to relocate some things as some stuff would end up at one end of the chain. But my ex was kind of of with dropping stuff off at mine when passing another times as he has a key. I’m glad he has a key also as both my kids forgot their keys the other week and were locked out and he was able to pop round and let them in. He lives more than 2 streets away as well - more like a 20 minute drive.

I do find mid week stopovers a pain. They don’t seem to be bothered about them these days and he’s stopped offering as they have hobbies he isn’t particularly keen on driving them to and from. We still end up with random clothes left behind now. Weekend hobbies we have to make sure they all come back. One of my DD’s hobbies requires equipment too expensive to have double of. I do tell my kids though if they’re wearing clothes to dad’s house they need to either remember to return or not complain that they won’t see them for a few weeks.

I'd move the guitar thing back to the day it was before. Then it's on your day and you are in control of sending DS with it and getting it back. I don't think you sound disorganised either.

If your ex is happy to turn up at your house to collect whatever he’s missing I wouldn’t think twice about doing the same.
He could scream and shout at me until he was blue in the face. I’d keep turning up when suited me to get the missing items OR he decided to communicate better.
I would however set reminders on DS phone for him to remember guitar/cubs uniform etc

this sounds very much like a rock and hard place OP and I do sympathise. I think by giving him what he needs even at the last minute is facilitating him. He needs to learn a hard lesson that he should be open to communication or be more organised and pass stuff back or it’s his problem. If you are out then it’s tough but i understand that you don’t want DS to suffer.

my exH wasn’t buying any clothes for the kids, I was having to send 3 days worth of clothes every time they went to him, in the end I just stopped to force him to buy some as I knew that as long as I was sending clothes he would never buy any but I was sending them because I knew he never had any iyswim. The kids had a break down about it and thought I was being unreasonable and I felt bad on them but it worked. He bought clothes and I gave never sent any since. DD15 does take this between houses now if she is going out with friends and wants to wear something specifically.