Where is the father in all of this?

[Journeyintomelody]

Single mum. Name changed. I created a thread a couple of weeks ago and received a few comments like the one in the title. The question was clearly loaded with a followup along the lines of - it should be 50:50 contact/he should be contributing to childcare...

Am I being unreasonable to think this is a pig-ignorant question to ask a someone who is struggling?

There are so many reasons that women may have to deal with things on their own - for example, they could be widowed, single parent through choice, partner could be serving overseas, illness etc. I mean, they may have a female partner. Not all families look the same. Unless this information is volunteered I think it's unnecessary, insensitive and presumptuous to ask.

If the question is genuine, it would be asked in a different way.
Are you getting any support?
Are you the one with sole financial responsibility? Do you have friends and family who could help with xyz?

Am I being overly sensitive? It hurts when people ask me this question.

Enrages me when there is some horrific case and the absent “father” comes out weeping and wailing and full of righteous indignation. Where were you when needed then?

Since when did we have to be a counselling session to acknowledge mens responsibility in something?!

I agree though, if I had daughters I’d encourage them to be cautious. You didn’t mention what you’d tell sons though?

I think it’s fair to ask. It makes a huge difference to a response. I have known a few single Mothers the amount of money or help from the absent Father varied hugely.

YANBU at all.

If the father was there and helping then the poster wouldn't be making the post in the first place!

@ByMerryKoala that's the way it feels to me too. My marriage ended for devastating reasons which I could not have foreseen and don't go into publicly, and I now have my children 100% of the time. Two have SEN and it can be very hard going especially since I have to work too.

@PaminaMozart I didn't choose the father of my child. I was raped. There, I said it.

I completely agree with @ByMerryKoala, it is a very important question that needs to be asked at a societal level, but when it is brought up on a thread where an OP is asking for practical advice, it comes across as accusatory, intentionally or not.

On my thread I did give relevant context.

'I am a single mother. I have a DS aged xxxx. This is my predicament. Does anyone have any practical advice.....'

....'Where is the father in all this?' Is unhelpful at best.

I am sorry that this happened to you.

Unfortunately, though, I stand by earlier comments that even if you say you're a single mother, it's still reasonable for many to assume the father IS in the picture and could perhaps be encouraged to do more. Because, as has been stated, in many cases, he absolutely could and should. And it's true that sometimes in the case of co-parenting, some women could ask their ex for more, but don't want to for whatever reason. my SIL for example, for a long time was wrapping herself into a pretzel so that exBIL never did school run because SHE didn't think his car was safe. it was a perfectly normal, legal, relatively new car but it was small and cheap and so she didn't want her DC in it. That was an irrational response.

I would say in future something like, "I'm a single mother, the dad isn't in the picture and is never going to be" and then continue.

I am so sorry about what happened to you, @Journeyintomelody , and given that you were raped it's perfectly understandable that you would not want to mention your child's father.

However. I also agree that stating "I'm a single mother, the dad isn't in the picture and is never going to be" and then continue is a good way to preempt questions about the father.

I hope you got some good information and advice in your previous thread, despite the derailing.

It is a valid question. If you are widow or whatever just say it.
How are we supposed to help you if we don't have all the information?

I was one of those women who made a 'poor choice'. As a result I ended up becoming a homeless single parent to baby twins within a few months of them being born. Their father tried to strangle me and fortunately I had the strength to get out.

Those DTs are now adults. I hold a very responsible and highly paid job in a public facing role. I am happily remarried living in a lovely house with a really nice life. If you didn't know my story you'd probably hold me up as a success and think I'm a million miles away from those 'stupid' single mothers having children with feckless/abusive men.

I'm not.

What happened to me was life changing. I'm incredibly lucky that in my case it played out by bringing out my fighting spirit. I transformed my life. Without the support of family (I have none) or another man (I stayed single for years). I retrained and grew a career. It was far from easy and I had some major advantages many women in my situation don't have - fantastic friends, good qualifications, my health and the health of my DC, and assets I was able to sell to make up for the woefully inadequate money I was trying to live off (I never received any money from the DT's father).

Did I make a 'poor choice'? Yes. My greatest sadness is that my DC do not have a loving relationship with a father as equally invested in their happiness as I am. (Although they have a great relationship with their stepfather.)

However, I knew no better at the time. No one had ever taught me to see through the extremely convincing persona an abusive man presents. I didn't work it out until I was in far too deep. No one teaches women to see through the BS that absent fathers spin about how their exes have alienated the DC from him, etc. In fact society goes some way to reinforce the narrative that men aren't being unreasonable - forcing contact with abusive men through the family courts (even though the evidence shows these men are not good fathers) and reducing child maintenance payments if a man fathers subsequent children.

Add in the impact of trauma on women who may have been exposed to adverse childhood experiences or early adulthood - things which are completely outside their control and for which they bear no responsibility - and you have another layer of vulnerability to making 'poor choices'. Much of it is subconscious.

We need to stop viewing 'poor choices' as choices made on a level playing field. Life is not a level playing field. It's not about abdicating personal responsibility for your choices - most single mothers step up and raise their children showing they do take responsibility. And they do so with very little support in terms of provision of childcare to work, ensuring child maintenance is paid, etc.

We need to recognise that we need to take a societal approach to tackling this. Blaming women for not having a good father in their children's lives is spectacularly missing the point.

I agree. It's an unnecessarily bitchy comment to make. Just another way to rub salt in and cause humiliation. If the op wanted us to know about "the father " they would have said. A lot of things can be read without having to read the actual words.

Empathy and solidarity are free and don't take much to extend. Some problems can be solved without asking those questions or just by actually answering what the op is seeking advice on.

Bitchiness has reached a new fashionable status on MN. Too many seem to wear the badge with great delight and feel it is their duty to squash and tear down those who are already low.

I don't know the answer, but I hope more and more women stand up to this type of bullying behaviour. I feel sorry for those that need to tear others down for their own pleasure and enjoyment. Makes me wonder if they are just projecting their own poor life choices. (I've made a fair few of my own just like most have)

Fantastic post. You sound amazing!

There are so many reasons that women may have to deal with things on their own... I mean, they may have a female partner.
Ummmmm, and this makes them a single parent how?

Do you mean the mothers ‘poor decision making’ in having a child with an irresponsible man?
Or the father’s ’poor decision making’ in having a child he can’t be bothered to support?
Neither are desirable.

Sorry, just read my OP back and I agree that was unclear. Female partner was referring to 'where is the "father" in all this?'. Lesbian couples break up too. I was just trying to highlight how the question is in itself presumptuous. I should have said 'female EX partner'

That is so true.

However, some posters also do the classic 'I mean this kindly OP' before coming out with some victim blaming bollocks, e.g.

'With kindness OP, don't you think you brought this all on yourself by choosing such a terrible father for your kids'

Did he know the child needed lunch?! As if, if you hadn't told him, there's no way he could possibly have known! What a ridiculous thing to ask! How infuriating. So glad for you that you have a better partner in your life now.

Someone once said to me "well I want to make sure I really know someone well before I bring a child into the mix, I want to know that he will be a good dad". Great. Good idea. Wish I'd thought of that instead of rushing into things with a degree educated, financially solvent man who had held a job in education working with primary age children for almost 2 decades, whom I had known for 18 years!

There are so many smug messages of "just choose a better man to father your child" as if people can see into the future that their partner is going to cheat, be abusive, get ill, die, withhold child support, be unreliable with contact etc and these idiotic women are just shrugging and doing it anyway, bringing it all on themselves.

I actually used those very words in my thread "isn't in the picture" and I still had multiple people asking where the father is. 🙂

as a lone parent i agree, it’s usually said in a judgmental way but pretending to be concerned. though saying that when i explain my ex isn’t bothered with the children and chooses not to see them i get told how lucky i am 🤷🏻‍♀️

Because most people wonder if you needing financial support is down to your poor choice and judgement in choosing a man to have a child with because they are safe and comfortable in their ivory towers with a wonderful man who pays all the bills and does equal childcare and life admin

I had the same OP on a very benign thread and there were certain responders who made it about my ex husband not being around and how it was my poor choice in husband which had led to me writing a thread - it was irrelevant

The majority of them couldn't survive without their DH salary either so it's pretty hypocritical. And even seemingly nice men can have an affair and decide to fuck off. You see it all the time. "I never thought it would happen to me..."

Yes this 100%. It is rubbing salt in a wound, and it’s irrelevant to the actual question being asked and none of anyone’s business how the wound was caused in the first place.