To think ds (4) is annoying

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He’s lovely don’t get me wrong but he does seem to really enjoy winding people up. Standing in front of the TV when people are watching it, getting in people’s faces, shouting loudly and when people express that they don’t like it enjoys doing it even more …

I do kind of worry about it or is this just a 4 yo thing?

I'm going against the grain here. I don't think its good for him to enjoy being a dick so much. How's he going to form relationships with people outside the home if this is the case? I would be putting a stop to it.

Yeah, I agree is sounds like he wants attention. Be careful you don’t get into a cycle of only paying attention to bad behaviour. Think of how you can compliment the good things he does throughout the day so he gets that attention. Even a well done you for eating breakfast with no mess. Or my goodness you are a good climber. You are so good at making your sister laugh.
His acting out to get attention will decrease.

You just described my 3 and 5 year olds to a tee! They're my favourite people but also the most annoying people I know

I know … I’m so conscious of getting into that cycle where the only attention he gets is negative. But it’s also hard when it’s behaviour impacting others so you can’t ignore.

I do try and I do worry a lot about him being annoying to others although I think I bear the brunt of it.

Interesting all the stories are about boys. Do you think girls do this kind of thing too? I wonder if there's a societal thing at play? I.e. girls feel they have to make people like them more and boys want everyone's attention? Not sure if that helps with dealing with the problem mind.

Girls can be just as bad for it. As a pp noticed, it's an attention thing. If you spend more positive time with them in theory they should be less annoying.

In theory!

Yes, that was my thought.

I can see this. The problem is it isn’t always effective, the other day he was on a toy fire engine and shouting and the child next to him was complaining. I mean, playing a game doesn’t work in those situations.

I think you can guide and explain kindly but I wouldn't be OTT about it and ignore him as suggested by PP, he's a little boy and that's just horrible. I have teens and one is nearly an adult he's a very kind young man and that's the way I brought him up.

He’s a sweet boy really. And the evening after nursery / work is always a tough one!

I remember ages 4 and 5 and while I can smile now it was definitely hard some days back then.

DD just never stopped talking, never, about nothing, just noise for the sake of noise and attention.

There were ways to improve it, like acknowledging her desire for attention immediately and setting a target for when she'd get it, "hey DD I hear you and will be with you in 2 minutes when I've finished putting the washing out.." but it was hard work and constant.

It did improve, now she's 10yo and only annoying some of the time.

This is why I struggle with the 4-8 age range. They are just so silly. Friends kids are around that age now and they drive me insane, particularly the 4 year old.
Its the stupid dances and the ‘watch this’ and the constant in your face and screeching… ugh.
I adore them, but I can only cope with them in small doses!

I would keep calling him out on his behaviour. “You’re too close to me” when he’s in your face, “that’s too loud” when he’s shouting. Try whispering some words and make sure you’re not shouting as he might be copying the adults.

DS1 wasn’t like this - but DS2 certainly was. He was an attention-seeking interrupter and knew exactly when and how to cause maximum embarrassment.

Letting him know what behaviour I expected beforehand with a firm reminder when he inevitably did it, worked well . And I did use the threat of losing a treat - that worked best of all. Once I’d carried it out once (cinema) he learned pretty quickly. I was pretty certain that he’d misbehave at church so I didn’t buy cinema tickets for the Sunday afternoon. It could have been tricky if he had behaved. The following week I reminded him that he wouldn’t be going again if he kept interrupting and being silly.

The golden rule is never to threaten anything that you won’t carry out. So I never threatened not to take him to a party or to cancel his own party etc, but not going to see a film he was desperate to see was a golden opportunity.

Eventually he grew out of it - probably when he realised it wasn’t cool - 7 ish? …

I agree. I have an 8yo ds who never behaved like this at 4. Just reading op posting how annoying this child is, irritated the crap out of me. My ds had lots of friends as well that didn't do this. Who is he doing this to? If it's other people you need to step up and parent him. If it's in the family, I say the same. Letting him think this is normal, won't be cute and funny at 5/6. I don't think this is as normal at all

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Hmm!

I think I do ‘parent him’ but it is a hard one.

The first thing is as others have said it’s likely an attention thing. So it’s so so easy to feed that with near constant criticism.

‘Leave her alone. DS, NO. Not her neck. DS move out of the way please, she’s trying to watch that. No Ds, come on. Sit by me. No. I said NO. No, that’s dangerous.’

So then you have consequences for his behaviour which can work to a point but there’s a limit to what I can do. He isn’t massively attached to any toys.

and so you can try to feed the desire for attention but that’s easier said than done with more than one child clamouring for it …

You have just described my DD, turns 5 tomorrow.
She's cranked up the annoying a notch since starting school.
DH and I are both teachers, we parent her not to be an ass hat but we are mostly alone amongst our fellow parent friends in thinking she needs a bit of firm discipline and boundaries sometimes.

Ill probably be crucified for this.

But, if you are confident you are parenting properly, I’d keep a close eye on this behaviour. DC1 was like this. Constant need for attention, good or bad. Always in our faces. Seemingly no idea about personal space. Absolute live wire who never, ever seemed to learn from consequences. I could take away all of his toys and TV time and he’d just do the same thing again, he was so impulsive.

At 4 a lot of parents around me were beginning to relax and didn’t need to be on their child like a hawk. I never had that luxury. Like you it felt like I was permanently parenting him as he was so low level disruptive.

He is now awaiting an ADHD diagnosis. Your child could well still grow out of this. But if you think you are parenting as well as the next person but not seeing any improvement, just make a few notes in case you need them in the future.

I hope not but it’s always worth bearing in mind.

He is better out of the house. We had a lovely morning Sunday in the park, walked for ages (he was on his bike for a lot of it) then played on the playground, he was brilliant. Then we get the stupid behaviour in the house, it’s so frustrating!

You must know some very strict parents as we are discussing a 4 year old not a fully developed adult, I knew loads of kids like this- all NORMAL behaviour as it is a learning curve.

I think he’s normal enough. He’s definitely worse at that time. Twice a week they go to nursery (he has a one year old sister) and I pick them up at 4, home for 425 ish and it’s fair to say we’re just clock watching for bath and bed and the annoying behaviour gets ramped up then!

I have actually considered this for mine, but I don't think so. He's stubborn and irritating and high energy, but he behaves perfectly fine at school, does his homework without any issues, can organise and manage himself with ease on anything that interests him. He's just... a pain.