To Think My Upbringing Wasn’t Middle Class?

[GondolaQueen]

Both my parents were Uni educated, both had professional high status jobs and we lived in a leafy area. But a poster on another thread pointed out that I didn’t have a middle class upbringing because being middle class is more than just job and education - it’s attitudes, beliefs, behaviour and lifestyle - and my mum was neglectful.

i finds this interesting as this is something I’d thought about for a while tbh - my mum often left me floundering while she drank spirits.

When I was growing up - a typical middle class upbringing would be -

A child has one or sometimes two siblings with at least one close in age

Either stay at home mum or a mum that puts her career on hold while kids are very young and only goes back to work when kids are in school

uni educated parents

parents without regular smoking habits or problematic drinking

parents emotionally stable

parents ensuring as far as they can that their kid only mixes with middle class kids

restricting/monitoring TV

now the only box I can tick is both parents uni educated - it’s a ❌ to all the others

anyone agree with this ?

Middle class in the UK to me means, private education and university. Well paid jobs, nice home and surplus cash to do whatever the family wants to e.g. holidays, hobbies. Alcoholism/neglect/abuse appears in all social classes. I wouldn't consider those factors of social class at all.

I never said it did, however it seemed to be a lot more socially acceptable to be regularly drunk at parties or just generally middle of the day for the middle class back then. Much more frowned upon and raised eyebrows now.

I think the main point here is that addiction happens across all classes, and probably had the most impact on your childhood.

I don't think your ideas of middle class are correct at all if we must have social classes then it's about upbringing and aspirations surely.

White collar jobs
Education
Car ownership
Activities and hobbies
The newspaper you read (outdated one now)
People you socialise with
Talking without an accent (in yester year anyway)
Pets (Labrador rather than put alls)

With widening participation and social mobility you can move from one to the other but I think it takes a bridging generation. We are at that stage and would probably call it aspirational working class, uni educated (but not RG), white collar job, prioritise theatre, museums and cultural activities, but a single parent, living in a (ex) council flat (owned), own a second hand car, DD plays rugby. I am happy to go to places my mother feels uncomfortable being as "it's not for people like her" I would expect DD to go on to be 'proper' middle class if such a thing even exists as the class system is pretty rubbish and yet most of us seemingly know our place.

Child abusers and addicts exist everywhere and I'm sorry you experienced that.

Middle class with an Adverse Childhood Experience.

Having an emotionally and practically absent parent doesn't change their income and education. And it certainly doesn't make you Working or Under Class - neglect and addiction is not a purely Poor People characteristic.

The point of the demographic categories A-E, for example, is to show similarities and trends associated with each group, not a ticklist of things to achieve in order to move 'up' or 'down'.

Abuse is across all social classes but the more money people have the more they can hide it or buy their way out of situations.

Seems like alcohol addiction was the main issue with your upbringing, that is neglect and nothing to do with class.

YABU to be so obsessed with what class you are. Who cares? Seriously!

What is it with some Mumsnetters and the obsession with class?

I’ve never heard anyone discuss what class they, or other people, are in real life. And I have a very wide circle of friends db colleagues. Why is class a MN obsession?

I have friends whom I would describe as firmly middle class. Neither of them are university educated but are very intelligent and aware of the world around them. They engage in middle-class pursuits like theatre, art galleries, philanthropy... Two kids who are encouraged to mix with a wide selection of friends across class divides. No controls on screens but the house is full of books and kids have a range of after-school activities including acting and sports. Mother went back to running her own business when the youngest was 4 weeks old. Carried him in a sling to work.
Ex’s parents were upper middle class. Dad was an officer in a military, no university education. He was sent to a boarding school at the age of 6 because his dad wanted him mum all to himself. If that’s not neglect, I don’t know what is.
My grandmother came from an illiterate farming family but studied to become an economist. Never stayed home with children when they were young and focused on her career. My grandfather is from a minor aristocracy, worked at a factory his entire life.
Class is a confusing concept to me as a “foreigner” and I am not convinced Brits understand much about what it is either.

This ^^

Wanting to present as middle class /upper middle class, or even upper class is the obsession on here. No-one ever comes on here parping on about being working class.

7% of children have private education. The middle class is quite a tiny sliver of the population in your mind, isn't it?

YABU. You had a middle class upbringing.

What you're essentially saying is that middle class people can't be neglectful parents. Do you think being neglectful is something only working class parents do?

I'm sorry you had a difficult childhood but think about what you are suggesting. It's a harmful view.

I'm firmly middle class and, other than having a sibling, I don't tick any of your criteria.

Problem drinking and neglectful parenting was a hallmark of middle class in the 80s and 90s! Maybe less so now?

How strange.

Would an alcoholic Lord or Lady no longer be upper class? What about Tara Palmer Tomkinson? Renowned and self confessed cocaine addict - she she lose her class status?

I don’t get why you are using social class to analyse this. I had an alcoholic father. He was technically upper class (title and family money). My childhood was shit because he was violent, nasty and abusive and my mum wouldn’t leave. He drank and gambled away all his money, so we were a lot poorer than the working class family down the road by my teens. Not sure if we changed class then!

I had one set of clothes other than school uniform and second hand shoes that didn’t fit when I was 14. We lived in a derelict flat.

Some families are dysfunctional regardless of perceived social class.

Your fantasy of a ‘typical middle class upbringing’ is nothing to do with being middle class at all.

My middle class upbringing bears little or no resemblance to it.

There are plenty of MC and UC people who abuse alcohol and when it comes to our DPs' generation, I'd say the numbers are high.

Are you suggesting you had a working class upbringing? Because linking that to alcoholism is pretty offensive…

I agree with this apart from private school.

I am squarely middle class by every metric, but I didn't go to private school because my parents are Guardian reading champagne socialists who don't believe in private education.

They did, however, have the means to ensure we lived in a middle class area with an excellent secondary school, so their money talked anyway.

I think class is more around cultural capital than education level, especially now when pretty much half the population get to university.

I.e. going to art galleries, theatres (ballet and Shakespeare rather than musicals) etc, wide and varied reading habits, and as per the dysfunctional families thread, going to stately homes!!. Probably also going to church if you grew up in the 80's though not so much now. Also back in the 80s I think the TV channel you watched most was also a factor, BBC vs ITV etc.

I grew up on the cusp between classes, but although we didn't have much money at times, culturally I feel much more middle class in terms of my interests as I spent my childhood having a wide cultural capital feed into me. People read me as "posh" though in reality my upbringing was a real mixed bag.

As others have said, neglect and alcoholism is a different thing from class boundaries.

Middle class to me growing up on a council estate was owning your own house (living in a ‘private’ house as we called them) and the father having a white collar job. The quality of parenting didn’t come in to it. This was the 60s/70s.

your list is wierd. and has very little to do with class.

everyone used to smoke - this is not an indicator of socioeconomic class.
alcoholism and unhealthy relationships with alcohol are prevalent across all parts of British society. You probably could define people better by looking more closely at their alcohol choices - eg upper and middle class adults are more likely to be getting sloshed on fine wines/ expensive branded spirits, not Buckfast tonic wine, cheap vodka and white cider.
having two children close together in age is not a definitive sign of someone being middle class!
etc etc.

It’s a bit of a meme isn’t it? Middle class mother sitting in her massive kitchen with a huge glass of wine while her kids at school.