Rainbows and Brownies

[Yennah]

DD (6) has been going to Rainbows for just over a year. In the town where we live there are 4/5 units.

The unit we’ve been attending never takes part in the social stuff that the other groups do, which has included theatre trips, trips to a theme park, camping days etc. I get that it is all voluntary and I would be more than happy to help if our leader needed help to enable the group to go.

We were in town the other day and DD saw friends in Rainbows uniforms from other units all boarding a coach for yet another day trip which our unit wasn’t doing. I asked the Leader if our unit would be taking part in the next social outing and she just shrugged her shoulders and said probably not. I offered to help if extra hands were needed and she said no.

A few parents moved their daughters to other units. A new one opened just two mins from our house so I contacted the Leader to ask if we could transfer if not for Rainbows for Brownies. The Leader said she had a space and DD could start after half term.

DD has been really excited to be going to the new one, but yesterday I found out that the girl who had been physically bullying DD during reception and year 1 attends the new unit. I haven’t told DD and I don’t know what to do. Our school is two form and they are now in different classses which has stopped the bullying and DD has been much more confident in herself, but I’m worried it will all start again.

All I wanted was for DD to do the social bits as she’s an only child, but I’m really worrying now. I don’t feel I can backtrack on moving her as it is messing everyone around, but equally I don’t want DD to become a target again for this other girl.

Anybody?

The problem is it’s hard enough for leaders to commit to all the meetings and prep, let alone giving up loads of weekends for things as well. I know parents would be happy to help but the leaders (or at least some of them) would have to go. If your daughter did all the social trips she’d be around this bully anyway.
Could you volunteer as a helper and get her into the new unit and at least be able to keep an eye on her and the bully there?

I would mention it to the new leaders when she moves into the new group. I'd also volunteer to help at the social stuff so you're there to reassure your daughter if need be.

It all depends on the leaders of the group. My friends run a scout group and they plan so well so that they can do activities which work towards badges etc, plan camps and days out.. yet the scout group the evening after do very little other than play games in the hall once a week. You can't really complain as they are volunteers, and if you want the group to do more, you should get involved and be the change you want to see.

I offered to help / volunteer, but Leader wasn’t interested.

Helping at meetings won't really lighten the load for a Leader and organising these trips - especially for this age group - is very responsible and quite stressful.
Presumably your DD goes to Brownies at 7? You could ask if they will take her early? (And offer to help)

I’m a huge fan of guiding. My girls have got a lot out of it as did I as a child. They do lots of lovely things including trips and camps.
The trouble with anything like this though is it’s only as good as the person running it. And it’s run by volunteers who get paid nothing for giving up a lot of their time and taking on a lot of responsibilities. If you don’t think this group is providing what you want then all you can do is move her. Trips are nice but they’re not what make a good rainbow or brownie pack. The weekly meetings are more important. Are they well run and organised?

Could you volunteer as a helper and get her into the new unit and at least be able to keep an eye on her and the bully there?

This sounds like a good idea - check with the new unit if they need more leaders?

It's no good just saying that you will help with trips - the actual organising of them is massive amount of work, while going on the trip is the simple bit! Unless you are willing to actually organise the activities, then offering help isn't going to increase the trips that your DD's current leader organises.

The best way is to help lead meetings week in week out, then once you are involved, offer to organise the trips. This is probably too late for your DD's time at her current unit, but if you start as a leader when she does at the new Brownies, then you can help to influence what they do at the new unit.

I’d still try the new unit. This girl will be at all the social stuff regardless, so even if you persuaded the current unit to start joining in she’d still run into her. And since the girls are older now hopefully the bully has aged out of a lot of the horrible behaviour. Plus you can ask the leaders to keep an eye out and offer to volunteer yourself maybe so your DD has reassurance.

I suggest you speak to the leader of the new unit about your concerns. Ask her what her plan is to deal with any issues that arise and how you can support. I would expect that it would be possible for leaders to keep close eye on what is going on as a unit is usually much smaller than a school class .
I have some sympathy with a leader who doesn't take part in events outside normal.meeing times. There is a fair amount of admin and organisation to be done abd it may be that the leader just doesn't have the capacity to take this on.

As a ‘retired’ Brownie Leader I was happy to give up one or maybe 2 weekends a year for trips but no more than that. I worked full time and weekends were for family stuff, the time taken to plan and run a session a week took quite enough of my time. You could always become a Leader and get the unit involved in all the things you’re seeing going on.

Rainbow and Brownie leader of 10years plus 👋 (although currently on a sabbatical as dealing with two units on top of a toddler and new baby was a bit much for me right now.)

As kind as it is that you said you would help out / volunteer, it isnt just about numbers on the day. There is a lot of paperwork and planning involved in advance, plus multiple leaders needed for the day itself. Perhaps when you offered, the leader didn't realise you'd be willing to get involved in the admin side as well and presumed you just meant on the trip itself (which isnt always that helpful).

As pp have said, there are a few ways to approach this.

You could register your interest in volunteering on the website. This goes through to the District Commissioner (the level above the local leaders). You could explain all the issues to her and you might get a more positive response. Some leaders are just less receptive to people getting involved (sadly) but the District Commissioner will bite your hand off. Once you've been told a few meetings as a volunteer, then easier to start suggesting outings. You'll also be cleared for DBS / safeguarding purposes as well.

Or you could volunteer at the new unit and so be able to keep an eye on any bullying. Leaders are used to dealing with issues like this spilling over from schools and will quickly nip anything like that in the bud. Especially as it will be against not only the brownie promise but also the behaviour policy.

It's great your daughter is so enthusiastic and we definitely wouldn't want to do anything to stop that so it's really great that you are willing to get involved to facilitate her enjoying the meetings!

It's no good just saying that you will help with trips - the actual organising of them is massive amount of work, while going on the trip is the simple bit! Unless you are willing to actually organise the activities, then offering help isn't going to increase the trips that your DD's current leader organises.

I agree with this. It's easy to say you will help with trips, but you still expect leaders, who already volunteer enough of their free time, to plan, organise and run them. If you want to run a unit with lots of trips and social activities then you could always look into how to become a unit leader.

Thank you everyone. I wasn’t unit bashing at all and I get the admin side of things too. It’s just difficult when DD sees friends off on trips and she doesn’t understand why she’s not going when she’s also a Rainbow.

No, the unit is not very well organised at all. One of the school mums supports the Leader there weekly and said she’s really disorganised and chaotic. It is a shame that all of the units are so different.

I will offer to help out at new unit. I just didn’t want to go in guns blazing about the bully (I’m still very angry about it all after DD ended up in hospital needing stitches that I just really would prefer her to have as little contact as possible).

Threads like this and parents like you, OP, are what's making me want to give up being a guide leader. You clearly have no idea what goes into organising a 10 week term of activities that fulfills and makes interesting the (incredibly onerous) badge programme, is properly risk assessed, takes account of all the special needs (educational, dietary, social inclusion), that will be stimulating/doable for children over a fairly large age range, making sure all the equipment needed is purchased (and can be stored, mostly in my bloody house), consent forms in place, first aiders available, etc etc etc. Organising a theatre or other trip of 20 plus girls, only to find that parents have failed to inform us that their child is afraid of something, or has been suffering from a health issue they hadn't bothered disclosing or is a flight risk or any other number of issues we have to deal with whilst making sure the other girls are safe. Continually having to chase forms, payments, parents always late dropping off and picking up.

Seriously, FTFO. Or why don't you set up your own unit like I did if you are so keen to "volunteer" and create your own "perfect" unit? Go on, GGUK is crying out for new units. Because it's always the ones who put in their couple of hours, if that, a term who moan the loudest about what isn't being done - but when not comes to the crunch of real, in depth, serious, committed volunteering, they are nowhere to be found.

You could always try Beavers if your DD is 6. They take boys and girls but start at 6 (whereas most Rainbows start at 5). You could ask around to see what they do locally. I help with a Beaves unit locally and we have mainly boys but always a few girls. Where we are, the Beavers tend to do more outdoors activities and the rainbows do more craft etc but I think that's just down to the leaders' skills.

As an aside, I can completely see why some units don't do days out/sleepovers etc. We have a great team of leaders but even shared between us it takes a huge amount of time to plan, risk assess etc the event and then even more time chasing up missing forms/parents who haven't paid/dealing with requests to move the world slightly to the left to suit one child's schedule etc. Parents helping on the day is great, but unless they want to go through the training etc we can't delegate planning to them or share data to allow them to deal with paperwork/communications etc.

Why not join a different unit?

Do you speak to the parents of your unit like this?!
Just wow.

Move her to a Beavers troop. Very few children round here do guiding anymore because scouting is unisex and much more active.

Only in my head.

Why do you ask, though, do you think you deserve some sort of gratitude or enhanced form of politeness from volunteers when you are criticising them?

How big is the new unit? We are a small unit of 14 girls and 4/5 adults (leaders, volunteers, young leaders) so therefore able to keep kids physically separated at all times if needed. There are two little girls we have who we have to keep apart.

I'd volunteer at the new unit so you can also keep an eye.

As for the social activities, we do take part but honestly they are really hard work, I can see why a leader may opt out and a leader has to take different courses to be able to do overnight camps.

My DDs go to different Scout groups (for logistics reasons). They do very different activities. For example both have an upcoming camp... one is a District event, one is just their group. The District event is costing £20, and is shorter than the other camp which is completely free. The leaders at one value making everything as inclusive as possible, where as the leaders of the other one know their area is more affluent (ones a farming village, the other is town centre). Its good to have a variety of options.

If your current group doesn't suit you, change.

Also Rainbows isn't school... they can ask disruptive children to leave.

Maybe it's time for you to quit volunteering.

She is only 5/6/7 with all due respect get a grip. Those poor leaders are volunteers.

Tell her different units do different things in non curricular activities.

Move units. Do another extra curricular activity.

Children of five do physically hit sometimes , it will have been dealt with in school. Don't make a decision based on one incident that happened with a five year old a year ago

Please don't bash adult volunteers or are giving up their time. That woman have a disabled child at home she can't leave
To run the extra social activities

I think you need to harness some perspective here