Rainbows and Brownies

[Yennah]

DD (6) has been going to Rainbows for just over a year. In the town where we live there are 4/5 units.

The unit we’ve been attending never takes part in the social stuff that the other groups do, which has included theatre trips, trips to a theme park, camping days etc. I get that it is all voluntary and I would be more than happy to help if our leader needed help to enable the group to go.

We were in town the other day and DD saw friends in Rainbows uniforms from other units all boarding a coach for yet another day trip which our unit wasn’t doing. I asked the Leader if our unit would be taking part in the next social outing and she just shrugged her shoulders and said probably not. I offered to help if extra hands were needed and she said no.

A few parents moved their daughters to other units. A new one opened just two mins from our house so I contacted the Leader to ask if we could transfer if not for Rainbows for Brownies. The Leader said she had a space and DD could start after half term.

DD has been really excited to be going to the new one, but yesterday I found out that the girl who had been physically bullying DD during reception and year 1 attends the new unit. I haven’t told DD and I don’t know what to do. Our school is two form and they are now in different classses which has stopped the bullying and DD has been much more confident in herself, but I’m worried it will all start again.

All I wanted was for DD to do the social bits as she’s an only child, but I’m really worrying now. I don’t feel I can backtrack on moving her as it is messing everyone around, but equally I don’t want DD to become a target again for this other girl.

Repeating myself. I DIDNT KNOW the bully attended this unit. And no, I’m not trying to prove any point. I’m not the only parent to leave this unit. I have offered to help but it was declined.

I can see why people lurk and don’t post!

OP if it happened to my child I would request a meeting with the school DSL to find out safety plan to avoid further incidents.

It can't have been that bad or the child would have been expelled.
I think your over egging it

Op I am confused-
Fair enough you didn't have know this other child was in the unit but why is it an issue after you found out -just don't send your child again! She is 6 ! Easily done

Other reason is cost. County and Division trips leaders have to be paid for. If unit is low on funds then covering cost of leaders and helpers for trips may not be possible.
When they are rainbows and brownies ratios are high so lots of adults to pay for.
On a recent guide trip we only had 10 girls sign up so looked after another unit too so they could go (their leader works every Saturday) it gets easier older as ratios are different.

Thanks everyone who has helpfully contributed. I won’t post again as there has been some v useful suggestions.

For those that think I’m over egging things, for reference we did meet with DSL and Head. I’m not going to defend myself on here, but I’m astonished that the fact a child ends up in hospital following unprovoked attack is seen as acceptable! No wonder we have bullies roaming our school classrooms with parents who think another child be hurt, needing stitches etc is okay!

I think some people on here need to be not so aggressive to parents, it’s uncomfortable to think that people with so much vitriol toward the volunteer work are doing it and are in charge of the children.

That being said, I do really appreciate the effort that is put in, and this thread has shown me that we are lucky to have such a good Brownies unit for my DD, as they do loads and often I can’t keep up with all the activities they are doing! For autumn alone we have a campfire, cinema trip, Christingle and Panto, as well as a few other bits.

I wouldn't be happy sending my DD to a Brownie unit alongside someone who had hurt her badly either OP.
As a Leader myself we have had to deal with some difficult relationships in the unit and we all want all the girls to be safe and have a good time. But avoiding a unit alongside someone who has been violent towards my child would be more important to me than trips out.

I was a Guider for many years. I have one DD in Scouting and one in Guiding.

Scouting is simply better organised IMO. It's not down to one leader. There is a committee behind the scenes running the group - I am the badge secretary for DD1's.

There is rota of parent helpers for every meeting. I have a Scout PVG so I can go on trips and camps.

OSM is far superior to GO and means there are no consent forms to sort out and no money to collect. It's ALL automated through DDs.

The GG leader has way too much to do. She is the leader, treasurer, badge secretary, etc. she has no support.

Girlguiding need to move to a Scouting structure so it isn't all left to one person. That would leave the leader far more time to focus on the programme (which is far worse than it was - too much like school).

Why don't scouting and guiding merge? A lot of scouting units have been so overrun by girls now they have all but become rainbows/brownies/guides with a couple of token boys. If they merged they could pool the resources of leaders.

I am a GG leader of many years. We do trips, but infrequently, mostly because I work full time, I have 2 of my own children and I have a hobby which also takes up a lot of my time.
Honestly I would love nothing more than to quit running my group but I keep doing it because if I don’t it will close along side countless others in the region.
I have ‘helpers’ which is great, not moaning about them, I couldn’t run the unit without them. However they just turn up each week. They do no prep, no planning, no forms, no ordering, no risk assessments, no consent forms, no storing of countless craft/baking/activity items which take up more cupboard space in my house than my own belongings. They do no accounts, no gift aid, no chasing parents for payments.

Your offer of help, though well meaning is of very little help in the real world.
If you really, genuinely want to help and want to give your child the opportunity to do trips etc you could offer to become another leader alongside the current leader. That way you could do all the things I mentioned above and really make a difference and organise all the trips for the unit as well. Though I suspect you don’t actually want that responsibility. Because let’s face it. Pretty much no one does

Why don't they merge? Good question. Personally I volunteered because my DD enjoyed Brownies and the local units would close without more volunteers. But the thing she has really benefitted from is it being a girl only environment. Having spent time alongside Guiding and Scouting, I would agree that Scouting is better organised but, I wouldn't volunteer with Scouts.

Guides and Scouts are international organisations. In many countries, girls would not be able to take part if the only organisation was a mixed one. Even in the UK... some people want a girl only organisation (leaving aside anyones views on gender politics).

I've been a leader in both, and they although similar they do have slightly different aims.

It's not actually that easy. I co lead a Rainbows group, my youngest daughters bully joined, which mean my own daughter cannot attend my unit. We looked at possible ways to not let her in and discussed with our district commissioner if we could ask this child to join another unit but girlguiding doesn't permit this. We have to see several incidents of really disruptive/aggressive behaviour before we can remove her.

OP you said there are 4-5 units in your town? So there is the current unit which doesn't do many trips, the one where the bully is, can your daughter attend one of the other 3 units.

Units do vary massively. Our unit does 3-4 residentials a year (some away and 1-2 hut sleepovers), legoland, camping, district events,cinema etc. Other local ones do much less, which makes ours massively oversubscribed, our wait list is about 2 years so if their name isn't down before 4th birthday they have no chance of getting in at all. But it's also due to lack of volunteers, we would live to open a 2nd unit but not enough volunteers. Parents help out with some day trips but overnights need all volunteers to be DBS checked and safe space compliant so these are harder, but our brownie leaders are massively supportive and help us out, on top of doing their own trips.

Why don't scouting and guiding merge?

Because they are two completely separate organisations, albeit with the same roots. Girl Guides is girl only, if they chose to merge then their biggest draw would be fine.

it also wouldn’t solve the problem of leaders. You’d just have an organisation with overall the same number of children and the same number of leaders, so nothing would have changed in that respect.

What both organisations need is more people to step up to volunteer as leaders. At our scout group, we have 80 kids on the waiting list, and could run several more troops/packs/colonies. But recruiting leaders is like pulling teeth. Parents want these opportunities for their children, but are far too busy to make sure it happens by volunteering. They expect someone else to do it.

I think some people on here need to be not so aggressive to parents, it’s uncomfortable to think that people with so much vitriol toward the volunteer work are doing it and are in charge of the children

To be fair, as a leader, you’re giving up so much time to give other people’s children great experiences, but no matter what you do, some parents think it’s not enough. I wouldn’t say that it’s necessarily vitriol towards the parents, but it can be incredibly frustrating, and sometimes upsetting.

We have a girlguiding district near us that has adopted the scouting type of model and they are absolutely thriving. When I was a District Commissioner, we tried to move in that direction by making sure rainbows / brownies / guides were co-located, same nights but different times etc so parents got to know the whole team, improve girl retention etc. Also helped in terms of covering leader sickness as easier for other leaders to step in etc. But we still couldn't crack the parent committee thing. When I go back, I'm going to try and talk to some scouters about how to make it work!

OP I hope this works out.

But fuck me, there are some people on here that should not be around children. Holy fucking shit.

But fuck me, there are some people on here that should not be around children

Why? Because some leaders are frustrated with parents? It's hard to give your all, and still get criticised. It would drive the most patient person to be angry or upset about it. It doesn't mean that the leader shouldn't be around children. They can still care about providing activities for the kids in a fun environment, while having a grumble about the attitude of the parents.

I wouldn’t have had my child’s bully in my unit. I don’t care what girlguiding say. I’ve kept a girl on my waiting list who I knew from school as a disruptive bullying type, who was vile to my children. I just offered places to other girls until she was too old and transferred her to a brownie waiting list. My kids have to come with me, I don’t have childcare and I’m not about to pay for it so my kids bully gets to come to my unit. Nope. Not a chance

I've been a Squirrel leader for 3 years, since my eldest turned 4. How about joining as a uniformed leader, then you'll have full visibility of the interactions between your child and the bully, and the ability to organise trips? It's maybe 3-4 hours a week of your time and it benefits a large amount of children, including your own.

I'm a Brownie leader. As others have said, simply offering to help on the trip isn't necessarily enough. That's just offering to have a nice day out whilst leaving the leader to do all the hard work. And it's a lot of work.

We try to do a reasonable number of fun trips with my unit but I am effectively the only leader (technically there's another leader but she isn't able to do much other than turn up at meetings). We haven't done a sleepover or holiday or camp for ages though. I just don't have the time for the work required to organise one. Brownies comes a very poor fourth after my health, my own family, and my job. The girls have fun and we're a full unit so they aren't voting with their feet yet.

I'm a Brownies leader and soon to be Rainbows leader too. The problems several.

Financial: not all our families can afford extra trips if it requires parental input, and we have to be able to subsidise if not so no girl is left out. Same goes for fees and uniforms. Money goes up in Girlguiding, it doesn't come down. And the fees are very low so it's inclusive, but venue hire, census, materials for meetings etc all chip away.

Timing: it's hard finding weekends that the rest of the unit helpers etc can all manage as we all have young families. And some parents talk a good game about helping but then flake out or disappear when you need a commitment.

That said, we do try and offer our girls local outings during meeting time where possible, to police station, fire station, vet hospital etc. But running these groups is a massive time commitment over and above the actual meeting time. And we do try and do the odd trip away, but it's a massive undertaking when you involve bus travel and you need correct ratios, people with specific GG qualifications, etc.

And an example of time commitment: to become a leader, it was about 12-15 hours of webinars, another 5-6 hours of online training, homework to be seen by my mentor and a full day of First Aid training.

I then have to plan the season's activities according to the programme, to make sure that we are covering all the proper badges. There is masses of admin to do with logging progress, as well as updating details on the online system. Ordering resources, storing it in my own home because we rent a room (which we pay for and every year we need to make sure we have enough in the accounts to pay for it upfront ask that's what they ask) and can't leave stuff in it. Loads of emails from parents about badges and progress or updating details that then need to be put onto the system. Physically ordering badges and badge books and new bags. Risk assessments for visits anywhere, consent forms, several weekends a year gone for county and district events that require a huge amount of planning. Training has to be updated every few years. I've got a binder with allergies in, I have a kid who has anaphylaxis so I have a bag with epi pen I have to carry everywhere during meetings. And so on. It's a lot.

I love doing it and I love my girls, but I work and have young children and I'm often at the limit of what I can do. Unit helpers are great for the hour the session is running, but that hour is the easy best as far as I'm concerned!

Holy shit, there are ways if saying things!

@Yennah I am a wualified leader in Rainbows, Brownies and Guides. I have run units since I was 16. I gave up running units after over 25 years during Covid because honestly I had stopped enjoying it. It had become a chore and the girls deserved far better.

There are too many leaders who should have quit a long time ago (the above being one) before they became jaded.

Lots of change has happened that many leaders don't agree with, the programme has become so arduous and uninspiring that many have become disillusioned.

About 20 years ago GGUK ran a recruitment campaign stating it was a 12 hour a year commitment...it absolutely is nit. Even as a parent helper it is far more. I worked full time in a management role that was less stressful than running those units.

There is so much more that goes into trips. From risk assessments, to first aid protocols, safeguarding on steroids and inevitably however hard you work, however much blood sweat and tears go into it, someone will still moan loudly that x, y or z wasn't done.

I suspect the leaders have been burnt before by no shows or money not coming in after they have paid. Units are completely funded by subs, rents etc go up due to cost of living but putting subs up is hard because we are aware that many struggle to afford it.

Trips can be extortionate, leaders may not feel comfortable that they can safeguard kids correctly in those circumstances, just because you have offered doesn't mean that they have others willing to cover ratio. Especially if they run more than 1 unit.

If the trios are important then move dd to another group. If the leaders know about the bully they will ensure your dd is OK.

In terms of the bully thing, please speak to the unit leader or district commissioner and raise concerns. We have to deal with issues like this occasionally in Brownies and we are very careful about making sure girls are included and that cliques are broken up so that girls get to interact with girls they might not usually choose. Handled correctly, it could be a good opportunity to try to resolve things or at least improve things by giving a commonality. I know I and the unit helpers are very on the ball about watching the girls interact and any hint of bullying or someone being excluded, we intervene. I'm always circulating during activities when they're in small groups, listening to them talk and watching their interactions.