Getting the timing right? Success in later life?

[Firey40]

I'm 40, and I've been thinking a lot recently about finding role models who have gone on to have success or totally changed their life post 40

I feel like the timing of women's lives is SUCH a big deal for us; unless you are one of the few who 100% knows you don't want kids, the whole 'will-I-or-won't-I-have kids' question can be a big pressure until you either decide, or you get too old and age takes that decision away from you. But if you do want them, trying to conceive, then birth, then raise kids, can really dominate our 'best' years...

I was lucky enough to have babies in my 30's, and while I adore them I'll admit I feel a bit sad that my career and income isn't how I wanted it to be. So now I'm totally lit by ambition, and I'm excited at the possibilities... (if I can just figure out the childcare, and running our home, and being a caring daughter to my elderly parents and blaa blaa blaa blaa..!)

Has anyone else felt the same way? It's become a bit of an obsession for me at the moment!

amazing you!

Yes there’s a huge misconception that having kids too early automatically ruins your life, but life is long, and parenting young kids into our 40’s/50’s is hugely challenging physically.

There are so many ways to do this life - I love hearing about how people have done things the ‘wrong’ way, yet it’s worked out so well 👏

@felissamy that's great for you but it can be disheartening to read if you already have a child and thinking about retraining. Not all of us have that clarity about what we want to do when we're in our twenties. There could also be reasons why some women have children earlier such as a family member with a life limiting illness, due to religious reasons, family history of early menopause or health conditions which limit fertility.
There are also things you can't prepare for. I work with a lot of women who previously had careers and then had an autistic child. The rates of mothers who drop out of the workplace due to their child's disability is huge. Infact I know very few who are able to work full time, the barriers are huge especially if your child can't access school.

I think this would be the “ideal” route for many; get all the major careering ‘done’ then have kids.

May I ask what sector you’re in?

Good for you though, I’m super happy it worked out for you

This is so inspiring

Thank you for sharing that you got a live-in nanny. Wow did you make it worth it, well done!

I know I feel really conflicted about getting more childcare; my mum was SAHM in the 80’s and subconsciously I feel the pressure to cook every meal, go to every school event, drive them to every hobby etc etc…

I have an amazing DH. He is the main breadwinner but would love to step down a notch and do more at home.. it’s hard though, as we really need his big salary.

Somehow, we’d like to essentially swap roles, with him at home more and me earning more.. but I’d need to perform an amazing trick to leap to his earning power!

it’s going to be a big juggle for us, figuring this out

Lots of women don't want to leave it that late to have children either. There are lots of benefits to having children younger (pros and cons on both side, I'm not saying one is better than the other) but for me, as someone who met my lovely husband very young, I wanted to have my children younger. I'm not going to rattle off the reasons why because it becomes a bun fight as to who is right when there is no right answer, but it is what I, and many other women, wanted.

Totally.

there can’t be ‘one right way’ of doing things.

My mother’s generation generally had kids in their 20’s, and I know many of my friend’s mothers who have frustration (now in their 70’s) that they never got ‘their chance’

Hence I think it’s important to celebrate and amplify the different ways it can be done…

And try to be honest with each other about the sacrifices that we have to make.

I think the saying ‘women can have it all, but not all at once’ rings very true to me

Nannys, cleaners etc are a bit taboo near me (I live in a rural village) - it’s like mums around here are trying to be everything - the perfect mother AND homemaker AND have a career

And try to be honest with each other about the sacrifices that we have to make.

Absolutely, I think this is what is lacking. There tends to be a lot of very defensive positions taken (I'm guilty of this too, as someone who is so often judged for having children younger than average these days). But it creates a myth that there is a perfect time, the reality is, for women especially with our biological makeup up and the societal pressures we face, there is always a drawback or compromise because we've been set a bloody difficult task!

There's no right or wrong about whether to have children in your 20s or 30s. The main thing imo is to keep your hand in with your career whatever stage you have kids. Too many women give up work completely, or go part time forever once they have kids and it's then much harder further down the line to get back up to more senior roles.

With up to a year of mat leave and then subsidised childcare from age 2, it's possible for many women to remain in the workplace. I'm not saying it's easy, it's a tough gig. When I had my babies there weren't any free childcare hours and mat leave was much shorter, so I know the feeling of your entire salary going on nursery. IME seeing your partnership as equal, not defaulting to the woman always allowing her work to go on the back burner while the husband forges ahead, is key.

It's possible to resurrect a career or to go in a new direction later in life- but easier to never let it go in the first place

Thanks for your response. In terms of skills and experience, I am probably over-qualified if anything! I am also part-way through a long qualification process which will be helpful in giving me ‘gravitas’, but won’t directly lead to work. However the skills that I have picked up via that process have a certain value in the freelance market. I have already held a director level position, which means that my track-record sits oddly when I apply for more junior roles.

I ultimately think that the problem is a structural one. Most organisations are pyramid-shaped, there aren’t 50 junior managers, 50 directors and 50 CEOs. People stay put, move up or move out. But where do all those other people go?

There has also been a huge increase in female participation in the workplace in the last twenty five plus years - much of what we have today in terms of childcare provision and support was introduced by New Labour from 1997 onwards. So the number of people available for work, many of them graduates due to the expansion of HE, has significantly increased overall. But the number of jobs in the economy certainly hasn’t increased to the same extent. In fact, technology is eroding many jobs. New jobs emerge, but does it balance out? I need to get on with my day now, otherwise I would be looking it up…

Thank you again for this, my feeling reading you post is that getting a professional external view on your life/career options might be helpful - a business or life coach, or even a recruiter or two?

You sound brilliant and it shouldn’t be the case that you’re having to apply for junior rules, albeit I understand the reality that is putting you in that position

Could you turn up the turbo and go all out on the freelancing? Start a consultancy? Set up a shiny website and plaster it all over LinkedIn and see what happens?

anyway, good luck :)

It's certainly an interesting topic and each generation were fed a different life goal.

The generation born in the 60s/70s (gen X) who are now range from late 40s to early 60s seemed to fed the line "women can have it all" in terms of career and a family. The reality was unfortunately "women can do it all", so they either ended up burnt out from raising kids and trying to hold down a career at the same time, or they started a career, worked their way up then had kids later on, only for their career to fizzle out because trying to hold down more senior positions with the demands of parenting proved too much, especially as the younger generation came in and had to childcare responsibilities too. Being a young mum/SAHM/or no career ambitions was seen as very old fashioned. Meanwhile men just carried on as normal 🙄

My generation (born in the 80s/early 90s) weren't made to feel so bad about having kids younger, being a SAHM, and I think we looked at those before us and thought na, because we saw what the "women can have it all" mantra was actually doing for women.

Obviously this varies greatly but it seems to have been the pattern.

@Firey40 to answer the question you asked me, getting a live in nanny or any additional help that works for you definitely has a return on investment.

I find tech is promoting women quickly (not always good I know) because they are trying to address the very big pay gap and the key to that is getting women into senior roles so I took full advantage of that moment and worked my arse off.

You make a great point about getting in touch with recruiters, they can really help (but only the good ones) as they can coach you to think a bit outside of your previous career path.

One point though, I find it weird men are never asked this question about balancing work and home. I think we women take on far too much guilt, a pointless emotion really.

Also what I find interesting on threads by SAHM's is they always say 'it made sense for me to be the one to give up work as I was the lower earner' and that's before children? Why are women the lower earners pre children? After all we get better ALevel results and generally achieve better academically. I wonder if in the years coming up to motherhood whether women subconsciously don't push for promotion at work or don't go for promotion as they worry about maternity leave cover and not being able to go back part time after ML. We are far too eager to please.

@jeaux90 a live in nanny is only a possibility for those in very good jobs. Not a social worker, not a teacher, not a firefighter, not a nurse. Also single parents (I know you are also one) have to take on a lot at home as it is just them.

I hate the phrase 'having it all' ... what does it even mean?

I prefer the idea of having a life where you don't fall into polarised roles, where one parent (usually mum) has to give up or massively compromise her career and the other parent is seen as 'provider' so carries all the financial burden but too often sees child and home responsibilities as not their issue.

So much depends on the partnership between mum and dad. If you pick a partner who wants polarised roles - one being responsible for earning and always letting their career take precedence, and the other doing the opposite then you're both going to miss out!

We are saying completely different things though. The only common theme is age.

You are saying people are leaving “in droves” due to menopause. I don’t know the stats. It could well be the case, but maybe doesn’t affect my industry so much for some reason.

In my industry and my workplace I still see plenty of older women, but they/we have all hit a glass ceiling relating to a combination of age and gender.

Higher education - fairly typical in this sector

Yes for sure, but let’s not shame women for being honest if they do get help like a nanny

there are also other smaller forms of help that could make all the difference to people on a more ‘average’ salary too?

a cleaner for two hours a week maybe? (means I have to give up my latte habit but I think it will be worth it!)

extra wraparound care at school

I really don’t want women to be shamed for being honest about this stuff - if you can afford it and it allows you to follow your chosen path, then that’s amazing

You are saying people are leaving “in droves” due to menopause.

I clarified at "menopausal age", it may not directly be the menopause affecting all the stats, but it's quite a coincidence if it is having none.

There are some stats below, my point stands, like pregnancy and birth, menopause seems to be having a really negative impact on many women in the work place and we can't ignore the fact that this could be impacting the number of women in senior positions at an older age. I know we have to be really careful having this discussion so not to bring negative perceptions of women of a certain age and our abilities, but that doesn't mean ignoring the issue as a whole.

www.cipd.org/uk/knowledge/reports/menopause-workplace-experiences/#:~:text=Two%2Dthirds%20(67%25)%20of,due%20to%20their%20menopause%20symptoms.

There are many different forms of privilege, and a good income is only one of them. Another might be having a supportive partner, or parents who can help with childcare, etc.

There are many different ways to do things, and earning well to be able to afford childcare is a sensible and very valid choice.

To me, ‘having it all’ is fulfilling three major tenets;

• Family life of your choice (partner or kids, or both, if you want)

• professional success (earning enough to feel safe and stable and not overly worried about money)

• meaning and fulfilment (hobby/art/having time to pursue things that aren’t for your family/other people and aren’t purely about earning money)

@lopdoo I still think we are talking about completely different things. I respect your view and your points, but I think you are making a completely different point to me 😁

I am 59 and retraining as a psychotherapist. It's the best thing I've ever done, I go to college twice a week with people younger than me which I love, I have to make an effort to look smartish, I have to prioritise staying as fit and healthy as I can. I'm using my brain. I've just started working with real people and it's given my life a deep meaning. Kids are all at uni.

What a load of bollocks. Do you have anything other than your own experience to justify this nonsense theory?

This is awesome.

I have seen a therapist in her 60’s, she is so wise and kind - she has made a huge difference in my life

You have so much to give as a psychotherapist