To think increasing pension age isn’t going to add up?

[Tiredandconfused23]

I was reading a few recent studies about the employment situation for over 50s, basically confirming how this age group struggles to return to work, is more likely to be laid off and/or forced into early retirement and how a far higher proportion are in poverty and/or insecure employment than other age groups. And how, despite years of pushback against age bias, it’s only increased in recent years.

If we accept this, I can’t help feeling the idea that increasing the pension age so we work longer, thus save money on benefits, isn’t going to add up. Many people in their fifties would happily carry on working - the issue is many employers may not want us. You can’t keep working if there’s no job to work at.

AIBU to think we may soon be facing a load of older people on benefits, often through no fault of trying, rather than claiming a pension? Would this be seen as still more favourable by the Government?

Not to mention that lots of people start having serious health problems in our fifties and sixties that prevent them from working or working enough hours to actually keep a roof over our heads but that wouldn't qualify for any real benefits from the government.

Agree.

I'm late 50s and would love to retire when I'm 60 but it won't be financially possible. I'll certainly be asking to drop down to 3 days per week though!

I look around my workplace, which is a very open-minded, supportive employer, and even here there are very few women of my age. It makes for a lonely place at work. I don't get invited to nights out or included in office chat as I'm old enough to be everyone's mum. I understand why I'm not 'included' but it makes work very dull!

Another older woman recently joined the team and we're both just counting down the days...

I think there are so many problems facing people as they age. One might be that they get managed out as companies restructure, merge and make redundancies. Or they are unable to find work that pays well, and are expected take the first thing that comes along or to reduce hours or and use the rest of their time to provide unpaid labour caring for elderly parents, helping adult children or providing childcare for grandkids.

If the government (and the general public?) want more older people in work, they might have to bring in positive discrimination. And more rights, and protections of those rights, for flexible and/or part-time working.

I can see why some people get cross with those who lived in an era when University education was free {no tuition fees}

Except that the vast majority of currently retired people (that's relevant for many Gen X too) didn't go to university. Only a tiny minority did. The majority started work at 15 or 16.

Also re housing. Although it was cheaper - for many - then, that word "many" is important. Because there's a significant minority who were never able to afford to buy and also didn't get social housing.

Pensioner private renters are statistically one of the poorest group of private renters. And no, it's not their fault. They were doing the low waged jobs that always needed someone to do them, or were ill or carers or had other unplanned and unwanted life circumstances.

It’s completely true.

While it’s true that houses were cheaper in the past it’s partly because mortgages were really hard to get. It got easier from the 70s and the prices rocketed.

I am in my 50's and retired . Many of my friends are not financially able to and are caught in jobs they don't enjoy knowing it's hard to get another job. When they're being interviewed by people in their 30's and up against 20's - 40's group , ageism is still rife .

I think the issue for older people not finding jobs will decrease as time goes by as each generation gets smaller. There are a lot of boomers (hence the name) so competition is high.

As regards the state pension I think governments starting today and going into the future need to make certain things clearer: there is no pot of money that people have been contributing to, pensions are funded by current taxpayers (who are a shrinking group) just like all benefits. It’s probably a good idea to merge NI with income tax because I think this is where some of that confusion comes from. Maybe even renaming the state pension something like ‘retirement benefit’ to make clear what it is. Because the demographic pyramid is upside down I don’t see a way in which it can continue to be a universal benefit forever and this will help rationalise means testing it like other benefits.

Another double whammy for younger generations is the cost of university and loans.

How can they be expected to be in education until 21, pay of loans, save for retirement, pay crazy mortgage and have a semi decent retirement age?

Now credit to the older generations, many started work at 14/15 straight into apprenticeship, office junior, type roles. Even those in their 40s and 50s often started out at 16/17 on a government pay peanuts scheme (YOPP, YTS, Skillseekers etc)

But there is a other issue, people are starting work, 6 or 7 years later than many of the people who are now late 40s and older.

(Offices don't even have juniors anymore. There's another disadvantage to the paperless office.)

After a few years of temp/contract work I’m currently unemployed. It’s a hard market but I have had some interviews over the past year or so. It’s an employer’s market though.

I’ve asked those questions so many times. Why we as a society are encouraging habits to increase life expectancy is a mystery to me.

Re birth rates and needing people to fill job vacancies.

In the three months to August 2024, there were approximately 857,000 job vacancies in the UK
https://www.statista.com/statistics/283771/monthly-job-vacancies-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

But

Approximately 1.63 million people claimed unemployment benefits in the United Kingdom in the second quarter of 2024
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1118923/uk-jobless-claims/

So more people looking for work than jobs available (and the unemployment benefit figures don't even include people out of work, looking, but not claiming benefits).

And

Youth unemployment has risen to a post-pandemic high
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/sep/10/peoples-futures-on-the-line-amid-surge-in-youth-unemployment-unions-warn

Why we as a society are encouraging habits to increase life expectancy is a mystery to me.

To increase healthy life expectancy?

It’s because they think it costs the NHS less if people live longer 🤔

I’ve long been unconvinced of this because while there are costs with unhealthy younger people the elderly tend to all have ongoing doctors/ hospital appointments.

But why? Whether it’s healthy or not it still costs money.

This the average person has 10 years in poor health at the end of their life. Life expectancy for men is 78 for women is 81. People need to live longer if they are going to be able to work until 67/68.

Yes it it at the moment - lots of companies are making layoffs and cut backs, or not replacing people who leave. Can't see that changing unless the economy picks up massively.

I do wonder if the full picture is even worse. There are a lot of people who are freelancers or in the gig economy who aren’t counted as unemployed but still out of work or on such insecure, poor hours they can’t make ends meet on their wage alone.

It's the type of jobs though. There are loads of job vacancies in the cleaning and care sectors, but British employees don't tend to want these as they pay minimum wage and don't offer much flexibility. They probably wouldn't be great for older people to do as they're very physical.

There aren't loads of vacancies in, say, media or tech any more. Also, a lot of the advertised vacancies are 'ghost jobs', so there are even fewer than there seem to be.

Theres 88 thousand currently on jobseekers, which is the one that matters, cos everyone else is on in work benefits, Illness benefits or not on any benefits.

There is conversely 857 thousand vacancies.

Of course there is the question of what kind of vacancies, full time/part time/shifts/zero hours, but those numbers are correct.

Many more roles than unemployed.

Can't see that changing unless the economy picks up massively.

there’s nothing to suggest that will happen any time soon unfortunately. And in order to do that we need huge investment.

So more people looking for work than jobs available

Theres nuance though as it’s about skills…

This is exactly what I have done. I'm not 60 yet but nearer 60 than 50. The reason I have dipped into my (small £80k) pension pot now, is for two reasons; a) I'm asset rich and cash poor; this is unlikely to change and I needed a bit of extra cash to treat my kids and their partners to meals etc...... and for my hobbies, and also to enable me to drop my hours.

b) My best friend and 3 acquaintances have all died from cancer in their 50's. Maybe that's bad luck on my part, but I'm not taking any chances that I'll still be fit and healthy by the time I retire. I want to enjoy life now, while I'm fit. If I have to sit and watch mind numbing daytime telly from my mid 70's, then so be it. I like my job and don't really want to retire per sé, just work minimal hours.

After months of worrying, especially after Covid, I saw a financial advisor and he was brilliant. He reviewed the family circumstances and told me to stop paying into my pension, as well as taking a top up from it, as even if my elderly parent (mid 80's) needs care, I should be ok. I don't want a lavish retirement, like cruises, etc.. I just want a nice home and to enjoy my family and pets.

Some other interesting statistics re higher state pension age (thought especially relevant as MN has a predominantly female user base)

Women are more likely to provide care than men. Of the 5m people providing unpaid care in England and Wales, 59% are female.

Women aged 55-59 provide the most unpaid care. In England, 20% of women aged 55-59 are providing unpaid care – that’s 1 in 5 women in that age group.

Women are more likely to reduce their working hours in order to provide unpaid care. Research in Scotland found that women are twice as likely than men to give up paid work to care. Similarly, research in Northern Ireland suggests that women more likely to be pushed out of the labour market due to those caring responsibilities

https://www.carersuk.org/press-releases/international-women-s-day-2024-10-facts-about-women-who-are-unpaid-carers/

Also
In total, SunLife estimates grandparent care is saving working families in the UK a whopping £96bn a year in childcare costs.
https://www.ft.com/content/0beeda13-405b-43dc-b4fb-c8651b91e781

And geography