Page 26 | To ask how I can successfully ringfence this money? (Please don’t post for moral judgement)

Jaalp · 2024-10-02T13:26:24+00:00

I am a single parent to a 3 year old who will start school in the next two years. I have saved up a significant amount of money for schools fees. As a single parent I am constantly worried about job loss or anything else that could affect things. I am aware that if for some reason I was made redundant, for example, if I have more than a certain amount in savings then I would be expected to use this before claiming universal credit etc. I have no intention of claiming universal credit but life happens and I have to be conscious of the potential things that could happen. My question is, is there any way to put this money in an account for my child that would be protected as theirs and not counted in an assessment for universal credit etc should that ever happen? Please don’t make this is a private school bashing thread or about playing the system etc. I’ve worked hard all my life and intend to continue to do so. Thanks.

Tellysavelas · 03/10/2024 15:00

ilovesooty · 03/10/2024 14:59

I made the point I wanted to make. I'm really not sufficiently interested in your response to continue thrashing about with it.

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I’m not interested either which is why I had stopped replying to you pages ago.

CheekyHobson · 03/10/2024 15:06

InterIgnis · 03/10/2024 14:56

Because that’s a typical part of financial planning - considering the worst case scenario and taking action to mitigate the impact (in this case - looking to make sure her daughter’s education isn’t disrupted).

The very existence of trust funds demonstrates that it’s normal for those with assets to ring fence funds for specific purposes.

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Honestly, it seems unrealistic for the OP to think that if she becomes so financially strapped that she has to claim UC for an extended period of time that it’s gong to be practical to keep her daughter in private school given all the additional outgoings associated with it.

Given the fairly long time frame involved here it seems like much better financial planning to mentally reallocate a portion of the savings to “emergency fund” and keep that relatively liquid as protection against sudden job loss, set the rest aside as the education fund, invested in various interest-bearing chunks that become available as she needs them, and continue to add to the education fund over the next decade.

goodluckbinbin · 03/10/2024 15:14

InterIgnis · 03/10/2024 14:24

She didn’t say that £200k is all she has in savings - she says that’s what she has set aside specifically for fund her daughter’s schooling.

She also didn’t say she had no other plans should she lose her job.

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I don’t know how people manage, scraping by with just £200k in the bank for something that’s you can get for free ( yes, I know she probably already paid her income tax though going by the morals shown here, who knows…)

Crikeyalmighty · 03/10/2024 15:16

I will give you my personal example as a case in point.

We are early 60s and rent ( very nice house in nice area , but still rented) we had a bit of a disaster many years ago and hence ended up renting-by the time everything had picked back to normal we were too old to get mortgages over a decent term in anywhere my H was prepared to live.

So fast forward we earn pretty well and have some savings but not enough to buy outright unless we inherit in next 10 years which is very possible . . I don't imagine the DWP if we need to claim ever would take too kindly to me saying 'well actually we do have well over £16k - but not yet 6 figures , however would you mind ignoring that as we really need that money for security at our age to know we can carry on renting ok or to add to a house purchase' -
what the OP wants to ringfence it for is irrelevant - it's simply a life choice , makes no difference if it's for education, a wedding or a deposit for a house for her daughter and if it's the case people are claiming but have stuck very large amounts of money away in kids names and trust funds, ( and I doubt in reality that happens much) then I think that needs relooking at. I don't think you can have tight regs around claiming for single mum Gemma who hasn't got much of a pot to piss in and not have them for jemima who has stuck £250k away in her child's name.

As I said I think OP needs to put more money into 'protection' of income against health, accident, unemployment etc and paying her mortgage down if she has anxiety at disrupting her daughters private education - rather than seeing how she can hide money in order to be able to claim.

goodluckbinbin · 03/10/2024 15:17

‘Honestly, it seems unrealistic for the OP to think that if she becomes so financially strapped that she has to claim UC for an extended period of time that it’s gong to be practical to keep her daughter in private school given all the additional outgoings associated with it.’

No kidding, not much seems to be included! DFriend pays for the mini bus, music lessons, language lessons, LAMDA, and despite the school having 20 tennis courts - tennis lessons are extra too. And that’s before the ski trip,school trips paying for the actual GCSE exams, extra tutoring etc.
Total scam.

InterIgnis · 03/10/2024 15:21

CheekyHobson · 03/10/2024 15:06

Honestly, it seems unrealistic for the OP to think that if she becomes so financially strapped that she has to claim UC for an extended period of time that it’s gong to be practical to keep her daughter in private school given all the additional outgoings associated with it.

Given the fairly long time frame involved here it seems like much better financial planning to mentally reallocate a portion of the savings to “emergency fund” and keep that relatively liquid as protection against sudden job loss, set the rest aside as the education fund, invested in various interest-bearing chunks that become available as she needs them, and continue to add to the education fund over the next decade.

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Who says she isn’t doing that as well? She may well be. I’m not going to assume she hasn’t or isn’t because that isn’t the topic she chose to post about.

Regardless, it’s her money, her decision, her risks to take and benefits to reap. She wasn’t asking whether she should or not, she was asking if she can, and the answer to that is yes.

Crikeyalmighty · 03/10/2024 15:22

Oh and OP - better to split your cash up , so you are covered off.

Tellysavelas · 03/10/2024 15:24

Crikeyalmighty · 03/10/2024 15:16

I will give you my personal example as a case in point.

We are early 60s and rent ( very nice house in nice area , but still rented) we had a bit of a disaster many years ago and hence ended up renting-by the time everything had picked back to normal we were too old to get mortgages over a decent term in anywhere my H was prepared to live.

So fast forward we earn pretty well and have some savings but not enough to buy outright unless we inherit in next 10 years which is very possible . . I don't imagine the DWP if we need to claim ever would take too kindly to me saying 'well actually we do have well over £16k - but not yet 6 figures , however would you mind ignoring that as we really need that money for security at our age to know we can carry on renting ok or to add to a house purchase' -
what the OP wants to ringfence it for is irrelevant - it's simply a life choice , makes no difference if it's for education, a wedding or a deposit for a house for her daughter and if it's the case people are claiming but have stuck very large amounts of money away in kids names and trust funds, ( and I doubt in reality that happens much) then I think that needs relooking at. I don't think you can have tight regs around claiming for single mum Gemma who hasn't got much of a pot to piss in and not have them for jemima who has stuck £250k away in her child's name.

As I said I think OP needs to put more money into 'protection' of income against health, accident, unemployment etc and paying her mortgage down if she has anxiety at disrupting her daughters private education - rather than seeing how she can hide money in order to be able to claim.

what the OP wants to ringfence it for is irrelevant - it's simply a life choice , makes no difference if it's for education, a wedding or a deposit for a house for her daughter

But it is relevant that it’s for education, because there is an Education Trust Fund. There isn’t a Wedding Deposit Trust Fund or a House Deposit Trust Fund.

An Education Trust Fund is to be used explicitly for education.

InterIgnis · 03/10/2024 15:26

Crikeyalmighty · 03/10/2024 15:16

I will give you my personal example as a case in point.

We are early 60s and rent ( very nice house in nice area , but still rented) we had a bit of a disaster many years ago and hence ended up renting-by the time everything had picked back to normal we were too old to get mortgages over a decent term in anywhere my H was prepared to live.

So fast forward we earn pretty well and have some savings but not enough to buy outright unless we inherit in next 10 years which is very possible . . I don't imagine the DWP if we need to claim ever would take too kindly to me saying 'well actually we do have well over £16k - but not yet 6 figures , however would you mind ignoring that as we really need that money for security at our age to know we can carry on renting ok or to add to a house purchase' -
what the OP wants to ringfence it for is irrelevant - it's simply a life choice , makes no difference if it's for education, a wedding or a deposit for a house for her daughter and if it's the case people are claiming but have stuck very large amounts of money away in kids names and trust funds, ( and I doubt in reality that happens much) then I think that needs relooking at. I don't think you can have tight regs around claiming for single mum Gemma who hasn't got much of a pot to piss in and not have them for jemima who has stuck £250k away in her child's name.

As I said I think OP needs to put more money into 'protection' of income against health, accident, unemployment etc and paying her mortgage down if she has anxiety at disrupting her daughters private education - rather than seeing how she can hide money in order to be able to claim.

Yes, what she wants to ringfence it for is irrelevant - the only thing relevant is that it’s legally ring fenced and isn’t hers to access. The point is that OP won’t have that £200k - it will be in a trust fund with her daughter as the sole beneficiary.

Again, OP may very well have those protections in addition to this one that is specifically for her daughter. It doesn’t have to be an either/or.

InterIgnis · 03/10/2024 15:26

goodluckbinbin · 03/10/2024 15:14

I don’t know how people manage, scraping by with just £200k in the bank for something that’s you can get for free ( yes, I know she probably already paid her income tax though going by the morals shown here, who knows…)

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Ah, but do you need to know?

Island2513 · 03/10/2024 15:48

InterIgnis · 03/10/2024 14:51

Because she didn’t need to - that wasn’t what she was asked about.

Her priority for the £200k is the school fees, yes. She’s been clear on that. That isn’t the same thing as saying that the £200k is all her savings, or that she doesn’t have other plans (again, neither are things she has to share as they’re not relevant to the question she was asking - not if she should do it, but if she legally can). Similarly, expressing relief that it can be done isn’t the same thing as anticipating needing UC, or having any intention of claiming it.

Why would she worry about it if she already has savings? Because other savings can run out, presumably.

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Oh stop it. You’re kidding yourself.

Someone who has appropriately planned for unexpected job loss is not worried about being out of work for a month and relieved they are eligible for job seekers. Give over 😂

Island2513 · 03/10/2024 15:48

InterIgnis · 03/10/2024 14:51

Because she didn’t need to - that wasn’t what she was asked about.

Her priority for the £200k is the school fees, yes. She’s been clear on that. That isn’t the same thing as saying that the £200k is all her savings, or that she doesn’t have other plans (again, neither are things she has to share as they’re not relevant to the question she was asking - not if she should do it, but if she legally can). Similarly, expressing relief that it can be done isn’t the same thing as anticipating needing UC, or having any intention of claiming it.

Why would she worry about it if she already has savings? Because other savings can run out, presumably.

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Duplicate post

Heatherjayne1972 · 03/10/2024 15:51

Well someone I know put all the money in a trusted relatives account and continued claiming benefits

but that’s probably illegal.

goodluckbinbin · 03/10/2024 15:52

OP should go and get some advice from a wealth manager, particularly if she doesn't want any moral judgments on her plans to live off benefits while keeping a kid in Roedean or Cheltenham Ladies!

Bachboo · 03/10/2024 16:09

Tellysavelas · 03/10/2024 10:30

Sheer arrogance. Your views are not that interesting.

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It’s not arrogance with it’s truthful

Crikeyalmighty · 03/10/2024 16:14

@InterIgnis but if she has these other protections in place why is she asking about keeping it away but claiming UC?? She won't likely be eligible anyway for UC if she does indeed have other personal protections as he ongoing income or lump sums due would make her ineligible

Bachboo · 03/10/2024 16:17

saltinesandcoffeecups · 03/10/2024 13:39

@Crikeyalmighty Fair enough… but if the answer and tone would be different if the OP had come in with the question “how can I ring fence this money because I’m getting married or whatever’” then it’s just bias.

I’m as right wing as they come and don’t see any problem with what the OP is trying to do. It’s, quite frankly, very smart to plan for as many eventualities as possible.

If the OP had come in saying that they want to ring fence this money so they can quit their job and collect UC then yes… that would be a different matter. Odds are the OP will gainfully employed and contributing to that public pot for the duration of her child’s education.

Far too often people make financial decisions based on emotion rather than logic. The OP is 100% doing the correct thing by asking questions, playing the ‘what if’ game, and planning for the unlikely.

Ring fencing your money if you are getting married is entirely different to what the op was proposing

Island2513 · 03/10/2024 16:20

Nogaxeh · 03/10/2024 14:29

I think it's unfair that people who have been careful and saved money are denied social security as a result, so I don't get all the outrage about this on the thread. I still resent the large sums of money that I lost as a result of this when I was out of work while depressed.

I think that an accountant might be able to set up a trust fund, for the purpose of paying for your child's education, into which you could put this money. The downside being that you wouldn't have access to this money for any other purpose or emergency.

It’s not unfair. Anyone can experience an unfortunate event at any time in their lives. Sometimes that person will have some money already saved, sometimes they won’t. Everybody is subject to the same income and capital limits. That is fair. People on UC are not allowed to build up savings without reductions (the capital limits remain the same). So people who have more in savings to begin with shouldn’t be allowed to keep more of it, as if it’s some sort of reward when you already had a financial advantage that allowed you to save in the first place.

InterIgnis · 03/10/2024 16:22

Crikeyalmighty · 03/10/2024 16:14

@InterIgnis but if she has these other protections in place why is she asking about keeping it away but claiming UC?? She won't likely be eligible anyway for UC if she does indeed have other personal protections as he ongoing income or lump sums due would make her ineligible

Because in the unlikely event that she ever needs to claim UC, which she has repeatedly said she has no intention to do, she doesn’t want money she’s saved specifically for her daughter’s education to be considered as her asset. She didn’t say she would be eligible for UC but for the £200k - but presumably she’s aware that savings can deplete and/or be lost.

She’s considering worst case scenarios, however unlikely. Again, this is a very normal thing for those with assets to do, something it is encouraged to do in fact, and isn’t the same thing as anticipating them happening.

Bachboo · 03/10/2024 16:23

Tellysavelas · 03/10/2024 14:37

As an example, you don’t think the person saying ‘no one cares what you say’ and ‘people care what I say’ is juvenile?

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well its truthful and was said in reaction to your condescending comments to those who dared to disagree with you

InterIgnis · 03/10/2024 16:24

Island2513 · 03/10/2024 16:20

It’s not unfair. Anyone can experience an unfortunate event at any time in their lives. Sometimes that person will have some money already saved, sometimes they won’t. Everybody is subject to the same income and capital limits. That is fair. People on UC are not allowed to build up savings without reductions (the capital limits remain the same). So people who have more in savings to begin with shouldn’t be allowed to keep more of it, as if it’s some sort of reward when you already had a financial advantage that allowed you to save in the first place.

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And yet it is entirely legal to do so, your approval not being required.

Tellysavelas · 03/10/2024 16:26

Bachboo · 03/10/2024 16:23

well its truthful and was said in reaction to your condescending comments to those who dared to disagree with you

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Your comment that ‘no one cares what you think’ (or whatever) wasn’t addressed to me so I don’t know what you’re on about.

InterIgnis · 03/10/2024 16:30

Island2513 · 03/10/2024 15:48

Oh stop it. You’re kidding yourself.

Someone who has appropriately planned for unexpected job loss is not worried about being out of work for a month and relieved they are eligible for job seekers. Give over 😂

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My own parents did precisely what OP is doing, and they had other savings too. So did my husband’s parents. They were relieved that money was secure and wouldn’t be considered for anything other than its intended use, yes, given that was the point of them doing it. I know and knew many others that had education funds, and/or are utilizing them for their own children. Like I said, it’s normal for those with assets to do this.

Bachboo · 03/10/2024 16:30

Tellysavelas · 03/10/2024 16:26

Your comment that ‘no one cares what you think’ (or whatever) wasn’t addressed to me so I don’t know what you’re on about.

Edited

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I didn’t say it was

Island2513 · 03/10/2024 16:32

InterIgnis · 03/10/2024 16:24

And yet it is entirely legal to do so, your approval not being required.

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I’n not talking about OP. I’m responding to someone complaining it’s unfair she had to use her savings, an amount large enough that it made her ineligible for financial support. Your determination to defend the OP seems to keep making you see things that aren’t there.