Page 4 | AIBU to hate the ongoing concept that 'the man must propose'?

moderndilemma · 2024-10-01T21:42:33+00:00

So many threads where people are waiting for a proposal... But also personal experience where the youngest (grandchildren equivalant age 4/5/6) are asking when Uncle Bob will propose to Auntie Alice. What kind of world and systems and ideas are we perpetuating?

Alina3 · 04/10/2024 09:41

It's a tricky one, it doesn't serve women at all being expected to wait passively to be proposed to.

However you can't deny that there is a cultural norm that is at play. A woman's way of proposing is letting the guy know she wants to get married. That's her proposal. Then if the guy also wants to, he does the ring, one knee thing. If a woman has let a guy know she wants to get married and he hasn't proposed, I'm not sure her proposing would resolve the scenario as she would be proposing to someone who isn't equally as enthused about the idea which seems like a recipe for disaster.

9/10 the 'just propose!! It's 2024!' replies on threads are from people who know full well that the woman knows the man doesn't want to marry her, it's disingenous.

GhostVase · 04/10/2024 09:42

ViciousCurrentBun · 04/10/2024 09:38

I didn’t give up my name but it is completely unfair to criticise a woman who does choose to take her husbands name. I acknowledge I still have a man’s name, my Fathers.

Men overall still out earn women, we are also still the only ones that can get PG and give birth. Women don’t especially need marriage but women who have children are almost always more vulnerable so do.

It is very much about economic viability.

When it comes to proposing, we did agree it’s what we wanted but DH did propose in the garden of his great grandparents house and it was very lovely. I would never have had a child with him without marriage.

It’s not a ‘man’s name’. It’s your birth surname. It’s yours.

PomPomtheGreat · 04/10/2024 09:42

candlewhickgreen · 01/10/2024 22:48

Many of the customs around marriage are outdated. Taking the man's name, the man proposing and buying a ring, the father giving away the bride. As well as the absolutely ridiculous amount of money people spend on one day.

Some women are so eager to get married they'll march a mop with a hat down the aisle because they've been sold a load of crap since they were children.

That's no way to talk about Boris!

samanthablues · 04/10/2024 09:44

That proposing thing is total bollocks, I would never sit and wait for a man to ask me marriage, I would discuss it with him or just plain ask him if he wants to marry me. Having to wait for the guy to ask is just another power tool that the patriarchy came up with to control women. F-ck that noise.

JoanCollected · 04/10/2024 09:48

Daisyinthegrass · 01/10/2024 22:49

I want to be proposed to not do the proposing. And when it happens, and we get married, I will change my name. It's traditional and I like that.

The tradition is based on a power dynamic and misogyny though, if you were to REALLY think about it. It’s a pity that you don’t let yourself see that because things will never change if the majority of people cling to outdated practices that condescend and control women.

But it’s your choice.

samanthablues · 04/10/2024 09:49

@Alina3 9/10 the 'just propose!! It's 2024!' replies on threads are from people who know full well that the woman knows the man doesn't want to marry her, it's disingenous.

Then why on earth are you with a man who doesn’t want to marry you? (If that’s what you want?)

gannett · 04/10/2024 09:56

ViciousCurrentBun · 04/10/2024 09:38

I didn’t give up my name but it is completely unfair to criticise a woman who does choose to take her husbands name. I acknowledge I still have a man’s name, my Fathers.

Men overall still out earn women, we are also still the only ones that can get PG and give birth. Women don’t especially need marriage but women who have children are almost always more vulnerable so do.

It is very much about economic viability.

When it comes to proposing, we did agree it’s what we wanted but DH did propose in the garden of his great grandparents house and it was very lovely. I would never have had a child with him without marriage.

Men overall might still out-earn women but what relevance does that have to any given relationship where an individual woman might well out-earn her male partner, or be on course to do so? Why would you base your decisions on generalised population stats?

If you are a much lower earner than your male partner and/or intend to sacrifice your career to have kids, then yes, marriage is a very valuable protection. But that only applies to a minority of women I know (one of whom has family wealth behind her that dwarfs her husband's salary).

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 04/10/2024 09:57

However you can't deny that there is a cultural norm that is at play. A woman's way of proposing is letting the guy know she wants to get married. That's her proposal. Then if the guy also wants to, he does the ring, one knee thing. If a woman has let a guy know she wants to get married and he hasn't proposed, I'm not sure her proposing would resolve the scenario as she would be proposing to someone who isn't equally as enthused about the idea which seems like a recipe for disaster.

That's true. But it still doesn't mean she has to be completely passive. The threads that are along the lines of "we've discussed marriage and both agreed it's what we want, but it's been 10 years and he's still not proposed, what do I do??" are just silly.

They should be willing to say something along the lines of, "look are we doing this or not? Because when we discussed getting married, I was serious. And I need to know if you weren't" (Maybe in slightly nicer language). Rather than just waiting around with growing resentment, unable to discuss such a big thing with the person you love. You shouldn't have to be worrying so much about pushing him into doing something he doesn't want that you're choosing to be miserable and resentful over it instead.

gannett · 04/10/2024 09:58

AndThereSheGoes · 04/10/2024 00:18

I think it's irrelevant what the man wants. The point being women generally still have more to lose, therefore it's important the men we marry actually want to marry us. So buying a ring, proposing and setting a date at least shows some effort.

Best case is clearly both people just agreeing to be married.
However it's very easy to move in together and simply stay in long term relationship for no real reason. I don't think it's helpful for women to,propose to take it to the next level unless she has actually nothing to lose. Men don't give birth, mens age matters less than womens, women still have a more to negotiate in terms of physicality. Men proposing acknowledges the fact it's not a level playing field, not that it's a romantic ideal.

Show quote history

Be the level playing field you want to see.

If you don't act like you're equal, you're not going to get equality. If you don't feel you're on a level playing field with your partner and if you feel like you have a lot to lose, the aswer is not to be in a relationship with them, not to marry them.

PomPomtheGreat · 04/10/2024 10:01

ViciousCurrentBun · 04/10/2024 09:38

I didn’t give up my name but it is completely unfair to criticise a woman who does choose to take her husbands name. I acknowledge I still have a man’s name, my Fathers.

Men overall still out earn women, we are also still the only ones that can get PG and give birth. Women don’t especially need marriage but women who have children are almost always more vulnerable so do.

It is very much about economic viability.

When it comes to proposing, we did agree it’s what we wanted but DH did propose in the garden of his great grandparents house and it was very lovely. I would never have had a child with him without marriage.

Men also have their fathers name, so that's not an argument for changing your name. Why should his father's name somehow be a part of his identity but your father's name isn't a part of yours?

thankyouforthedayz · 05/10/2024 07:18

I get it that in a couple who have talked like equals about getting married and agreed to do so, that there is some fun and excitement in the man proposing, if your thing is to honour the patriarchal traditions of marriage. The roots of the invites coming from the brides parents are that the brides family compensate the groom for taking the financial burden of their daughter from them, the bride being "given away" harks back to times when women had no legal autonomy. Only when we have a society where women are really equal will these traditions become just quaint and harmless.
A colleague's daughter, a well earning professional co-habing with a similar male, really fretted about when he would propose. They had agreed to get married and he said he'd propose and it would be a lovely surprise etc. It took him 2 more years. She go to her mum and cry, question whether he was really committed; she felt shown up when she was with his family with them teasing her about when he would "pop the question".Im astonished it was accepted that decision about when they married was his alone.

bakewellbride · 05/10/2024 07:19

My dh proposed to me and it was romantic and lovely. Wouldn't have changed a thing. And I changed my name!