To wonder how anyone affords to move house?

[towonderwander]

We are a mid 20s married couple with our first baby due next month. Earlier this year we managed to buy our first home. It is an ex-council house which needed significant improvement in an okay area. Not the best, but good schools around and convenient motorway links. With kindness, practical and financial support from our families, we are slowly turning it into a beautiful place to live. It is now a really lovely home with just a couple of rooms left to upgrade. It is technically a 3 bedroom but the third bedroom is very small and houses our clothes as well as the boiler so would never be functional as a third room.

We are glad to be on the property ladder and feel lucky we had so much support, but the cost to maintain and upgrade this house has been more than I could ever imagine. We have a 4 figure mortgage as it is, thanks to interest rates. If we wanted a bigger house/slightly more desirable area, I can’t see how we would do it. Anything that wouldn’t need this level of work again would be most likely well out of budget plus the new stamp duty thresholds mean we’d have that to factor in as a large cost too. Plus you know, childcare fees and the general cost of living crisis.

How do people afford to move? AIBU to think nowadays it is increasingly harder and not as simple as just climbing the property ladder?

(To add before anyone asks why we didn’t start with a flat, most if not all have been bought by landlords round here, the ones that haven’t are leasehold and exceptionally difficult to sell on.)

Many families will live in the house you have bought until they leave this world. You have a housing need - which you've been able to achieve by buying (not renting) - well done.

Anything more is not necessary. It's just a "nice to have".

So if at a later date you earn more between you you may look at moving to a bigger place or different area, but you don't have to. Same when you have paid your mortgage off - you may just sit and save money for other things (what we are doing) or use the fact you are mortgage free to take on another one and move up the ladder.

When we moved into our first small 3 bed home, our next door neighbour was a single mum. She's since found a partner, had another child, brought both children up, and her and her partner arre still there and now retired. Having paid off their mortgage.

I know I've use the term ladder but it's not really helpful because many people don't actually move many times in their lives - others move every 5 minutes. Personal choices based on personal circumstances.

Sorry, OP, but you are coming across as a bit green here. And I don't mean that to be insulting, but I think it's because you are relatively young.

The average age of a first-time buyer in England is mid 30s – the fact that you have managed it in your mid 20s (and a house to boot, even if that 3rd bedroom is a box room), including getting financial help to achieve the home you wanted, and can now afford to have a baby + childcare fees ... don't you think you should open your eyes a little to your privilege?

You're living in the world you're living in and you've received a hell of a leg up.

You keep saying "it's wrong", by which I assume you mean it isn't fair. Of course it isn't, and that's the way it has been for many years.

For us, we've delayed having children until our careers have become more established and we earn more. That's allowed us to build more equity in advance of children and having to pay childcare.

Do I think it's "right" that I've had to make that choice? Do I think it's fair that I will have to consider carefully the economic impacts of whether we have a second child, despite earning significantly over the average wage, because we live in a more expensive part of the country and because we'll likely have two children in childcare at the same time? No, bit that's the economic reality of the country we live in right now.

We're a couple in our 30s with 3 kids (and one in the way) and have bought/sold twice since 2021. Initially selling a small terraced house I bought in my 20s to buy a 4 bed detached new build and more recently a 5 bed detached new build in a different town. These cost 215k and 350k respectively with the one we bought for 215k in 2021 selling for 275k this year. We are not "high earners" and in fact I don't work so half our income is benefits. We used equity built up to pay the deposit and some of the moving costs and savings for other little bits here and there. And we don't live in a location with massively inflated house prices.

For the next few years, if you are paying nursery fees, you probably don't move.
After that, salarirs have increased, you've got some savings to pay upfront costs, childcare drops, and everything becomes much easier.
But you are aproaching the really expensive bit - newish mortgage and small kids.

Well we couldn’t afford to buy a house until we were early 30s and have been in it for 7 years now, and we have a much higher than average income so I’m not massively surprised that you can’t afford to move in your mid 20s after being in your house a year.

We bought our first house at 27 so similar to you.

It was only a 2 bed. We stayed in it for 8.5 years and gradually did it up. Had a child. Decided to stop at 1.

After the childcare years were over I upped my hours at work (had been PT while she was at nursery), DH had got a better paid job so we overpaid for a few years to get the mortgage amount down

We then realised mortgage repayments on a 3 bed would be similar to what we were paying then with the overpayment so that's when we moved.

Also am 40 now so mortgage rates were much lower.

Not being funny but we had a £850 per month mortgage for a house costing £230k in 2011 which was the very top of our budget. We earnt £22k/26k each at the time so whilst there is a housing crisis, many people have come before you and will come after you and we need to normalise the fact that buying a house is often a struggle in the first 5 years, so much so that we delayed having children so that we weren't overstretched.

It does get easier. I dont want to argue with you but its its unhelpful to people like you starting out if we don't challenge the narrative that buying your first home is easy because otherwise it becomes a nasty shock when the excitement of buying wears off and you realise you're at the tip of a very big and expensive commitment for 25/30 years. But it is usually a struggle for anyone who gets on the ladder early without family help or a significant deposit.

I remember my parents talking about high interest rates and working double jobs to do up an absolute wreck of a house to get onto the ladder. But like someone said, you are buying security and a place where you and your kids will always have a home. It's just going to be expensive and take some sacrifices. If you were renting, costs would be similar and with nothing to show for the money in 30 years. You should at least be able to retire. I know its hard, hang in there. 5 years and things will look better, 10 years and you'll be much more comfortable.

Moving house is expensive and especially so if you look to do it every year, generally you would stay in the same house for a few years, building equity, and that then goes towards a bigger/more expensive house. And it depends on your stage of life, generally people would start at the bottom of the ladder and then with time & promotions wages increase, equity in your house increases and you then move onto a more expensive house. Mortgage rates being high still though does massively impact what is “affordable”, a 200k mortgage at 2% is a very different beast to a 200k mortgage at 5% in terms of monthly payments especially.

It does depend on your area as well, and what you do to the house you’re in. Our first home was a bit of a reno so was cheaper to buy, we then did a lot of the work on it ourselves (kept costs down) and so when we sold it we had increased the value of it quite abit and that then went towards our next house which was more expensive. If we’d just bought a house, lived in it for a few years and then sold it we wouldn’t have gotten much out of it other than what we put in.

Mid-twenties is relatively early now to be buying a house (and a family home at that, not a flat), getting married, and having kids. Many people do that in their 30s when they're earning more. Nothing wrong with your choices and great that you're able to do so, but it helps explain why you're more strapped than some.

Those of us who have moved up have often benefited from price increases. I bought my first flat for £175k in 2004, sold it for £350k 13 years later, then bought at £425k. It hasn't appreciated at all in the last 7 years, but that step did mean that I had a very very solid deposit for the second. I'll be paying it off until I retire, but its better than renting. And its still only a very ordinary 2 bedroom council flat, but that's inner London for you.

I think people either get payrises and manage to save more, or they get 'help' in the form of inheritance or monetary gifts from family.

I don't think there is really a housing 'ladder' right now for most people, because houses are expensive, wages are not keeping pace with rising house prices, and as you've pointed out, the cost of maintaining a house let alone renovating to make significant improvements is quite a lot. And that's without factoring in other increased costs of living. Most people cannot afford to upsize (if they can even afford to buy at all), so the housing 'ladder' isn't there.

recently bought a 5 bed for £350k

"we don't live in a location with massively inflated house prices."

You don't say

I'm still 'only' in a 3 bed terrace house in my 50's (and one small bedroom - admittedly big enough to house a teen with a bunk bed). I consider myself very fortunate as although there is still a chunk of mortgage to go I am not in unsuitable/unstable rented....
We could I suppose have 'gone up the ladder' by moving out of the city/somewhere less desirable. The place we are in had no functioning kitchen when we bought it and we had buckets collected water when it rained for 10 years.....
In answer to your question, people can't afford to move. Most can't afford to buy, some can barely afford to rent..☝as everyone has been saying - I'm not quite sure how you have managed to miss this?

I imagine you put down a normal FTB deposit of 5/10%?

We bought our first house mid 20s in a not so nice area. We renovated it over last 7 years. We've now only just moved up, to a nice 3 bed semi (all beds large double rooms) in a nice area. We made 120k capital on our house in last 7 years. Once you have some decent capital behind you, it's easier to get a bigger mortgage.

The cost of moving was £20k for us, it's insane. It makes me not want to do it again for a very long time. We also have a child and one on the way. It's really hard and we are stretching ourselves. You just need to give it a few years on your first house to get some decent capital behind you. We are average earners too

You are very young and already earning the 'average' (I'm nearly 50 and around about that figure) and on the housing ladder so to my mind, are already well ahead of the curve. We bought our first tiny, outdated flat that was a fixer upper when I was nearly 30. Unless you are buying in SE/London, I do think it is still affordable to be a home owner. Yes mortgage rates are crazy, but overpaying is essential if you can throw additional payments at it. I think what has shifted are expectations. Social media/influencers etc, all paint a picture that everyone wants a piece of. I'm not old, but old enough to be of the mindset that you save, you wait. Deferred gratification has many benefits to our sense of purpose and pleasure in life. Basically, you are doing exceptionally well in life, so take a moment to revel in what you have.

We have had a housing crisis building for decades as politicians have seen ever rising house prices as a positive thing and people have consistently voted for this strategy. The reality is that the majority of first time buyers now have family money to support the purchase . Proportion of first-time buyers receiving family loans hits 11-year high | Financial Reporter

In order to move up the chain you hold your horses @towonderwander. Honestly you are in a great position to be on the ladder in your 20s. We didn’t buy until we were 30 and it was a standard 3bed with a box room and by mid 40s we had paid off some of original mortgage and had more capital from house prices increasing plus bigger salaries to borrow against so we are now in a largish family home but still with a massive mortgage debt.

You can’t expect to move up the ladder instantly, just enjoy where you are for now. If it was easy everyone would be living in massive houses!

Yes buying housing is expensive and often takes your adult working life to pay off (but it’s never actually been easy, house price costs always outstrip incomes, my parents cut back on other things - e.g we never went abroad, or like Rishi, never had Sky TV - to afford a bigger family home for us )

Did it really "need" improving, or did you just want to improve it?

I'm in my mid 30s and we can't even buy a house at the moment, so I get what you're saying, and the last time we moved (for a better job), removal costs were £1,500, which we simply wouldn't have had if a kind relative hadn't given us the money. But on the other hand, some people seem to think houses need the latest trendy kitchen and bathrooms, when actually the 1980s units function perfectly fine, so if they were the kinds of renovations you were doing, then someone who didn't have the money you clearly have would simply have bought the house, maybe given it a lick of paint and some new carpets, and moved straight in.

She's right. You are being naïve. The alternative would be that you're somewhat greedy and entitled, which I'm sure isn't the case. Congratulations on your new home and your pregnancy! You're doing pretty well, aren't you?

The way people move up the housing ladder, if their income doesn't massively increase and they don't get family money, is to buy the best place they can afford - ideally one they can improve over time, to maximise eventual profit - and keep on paying their mortgage. After some years and several shifts in the housing market, they've built up some equity in their first home and start looking at whether it would be viable to move to a more expensive house.

It's pretty weird to be moaning that you aren't in a position to move on while you've only just got your first house. Wishing you an easy birth and happiness with your child!

I'm 68. The people I know, of my own age, who have managed to buy big houses or expensive houses have ALL had help from family members. Either an inheritance or a gift from parents or grandparents.
We had no help, what I have know is the result of a lifetimes work.
I'm sorry OP but that really is, how it is.
FWIW I worked as a housing officer / homeless officer all my adult life. The housing situation in the UK is in crisis. I feel lucky that I have ended up owning a home, many are at the mercy of the private sector, or reliant on social housing which is often not a quick way to a decent home.

People often know people who have similar lifestyles, so anything out of their group seems very different. It’s why there can be massive disconnects and understanding between the poor and the wealthy. So whilst famous stuff like an MP not knowing how much a pint of milk costs it goes both ways as demonstrated by yourself.

When we moved last DH work gave him a relocation allowance. It paid for all the solicitors fees and also our removal costs. As it could only be spent on relocation so we had the personal packing service because why wouldn't you.

You have done well and yes many people are in a much worse position than you but some are in a much better position.

You haven’t said what kind of job you have. Some have a clear trajectory, DH and I did as there is a pay scale in higher education.

If you want to look at where you fit in financially it’s a bit if a blunt tool but a good indicator. DH has just retired as am I at one point just before I retired we made it in to top 5%.

https://ifs.org.uk/tools_and_resources/where_do_you_fit_in

I don't see what you thing is so 'wrong' about it. Yes, I absoloutly understand the cost of living crisis, the lack of affordable rented housing, the increase in house prices over decades which means that you need two incomes to get on the property ladder. But I don't see what is 'wrong' with two people on average salaries being able to afford a 3 bed house in the area where they live/work - a house that with family support you can improve, adding to the overall equity.

You bought a house in your 20s and are expecting a child.

Most people I know just about managed to buy a flat in 30s and had kids a few years after.

Don't do up a house if you can't afford it, don't move if you can't afford it.

We are about to take on a huge mortgage in order to move to an area with better schools and with a 4 bedroom house (currently in a 3 bed in an area with less good schools). Our mortgage repayments will be huge and yet I am aware of how fortunate we are to be in a position to afford it.

i have no intention of moving again, not for 20+ years, given the cost of stamp duty and legal fees!

The "ladder" isn't really a thing any more - it was for the boomers, maybe, when house prices were going up and up, but not for people born from the 80s onwards.