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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Northern Ireland - how do you perceive it?

408 replies

TheBelleOfBelfastCity · 30/09/2024 21:01

Genuinely just curious. I was born and raised in NI, opinions on MN seem to vary wildly from no go zone to friendly and welcoming. Trying to got a sense of what the most common thoughts are.

Have you visited? Maybe even thought about doing so? What was your opinion?

OP posts:
Treesinmygarden · 02/10/2024 20:25

OwlishPeering · 02/10/2024 19:19

That’s a bit disingenuous, @HazelPlayer. Can’t you imagine any reason why an Irish person with an accent from the opposite end of the island might have legitimate reason to feel intimidated by an area making its sectarian affiliation very plain? I’ve certainly had dog’s abuse in such areas in the past. But the last time I was in NI was a couple of days before the Omagh bomb.

That's 25 years past now. NI is a very different place thank God!

Treesinmygarden · 02/10/2024 20:30

HazelPlayer · 02/10/2024 20:01

That's incredibly simplistic.

Loads of decent people live in areas with flags flown.

Do you think they go around every door with a nice little survey and politely ask if they agree to flags being put up in their area.

The only way you definitively know that someone, personally, wants a flag up, is when they install a flag pole on their own house, and put one (or more) up. (Which you do see).

Anyway, if it's only knuckle draggers, then it's knuckle draggers on both sides of the conflict.

Interesting how MN posters oy ever seen to comment on unionist flags.

Edited

Well it annoys me every June when the flags start going up on the main roads. I don't get to have a say and I don't want any flag!!

I'm always agog in parts of north and west Belfast, where one street has one variety of 'fleg' and the next one has the other!!

Treesinmygarden · 02/10/2024 20:34

HazelPlayer · 02/10/2024 20:02

You started the debate around sectarianism.by stating that young people in NI now don't care about religion or community ..... I answered, as did several others, that that was not my experience, at all.

Edited

Yes, but you're not accepting that the experience of the OP and other posters (like me) who are experiencing a different reality? And I am so glad about that. I have a relative who teaches in a school in a deprived community in Belfast, and it's utterly shocking some of the shit the kids come out with - and that's what they are brought up to believe! It's actually sad and disheartening.

Sure, we may live in more affluent areas perhaps but my god, it all has to start somewhere!

Investinmyself · 02/10/2024 20:36

Visited a few times last year as DC was considering Queens Belfast. Lovely city and did a trip to giants causeway. Very reasonably priced. If anyone has a dc coming up to university age well worth a look as they pay £100 to GB students going to open day (and offer a good package to GB students with a £3000 scholarship yr1)

RaymondaHolt · 02/10/2024 20:41

HazelPlayer · 02/10/2024 20:06

Also, if a poster comes on and states that the "Brits" stole the 6 counties from them, and conveniently "forgets" that millions of people in the region did not want to become citizens of the then new Irish state, and still don't, you can't seriously expect everyone to just leave it standing.

This confuses me @HazelPlayer.

You seem to consider only the people of GB as British or 'Brits' and not to include any of the people of NI in that category?

The 2021 census showed that 42.8% of NI residents identify as British ( alone or with other identities). By comparison 33.3% identified as Irish (alone or with other identities ).

Yet you repeatedly speak of the 'Brits' like they're located elsewhere and not in NI at all. You seem to separate the 'Brits' from the 'people in the region'.

I don't understand why?

RaymondaHolt · 02/10/2024 20:47

The "Brits" would probably have been quite happy to wash their hands of the island entirely.

Another example that just doesn't make sense to me @Hazelplayer

tediber · 02/10/2024 21:08

I've been twice mainly in and around the Belfast area. Once for a few days and once for a week. This was about 20 yrs ago. My friends dad was from there. We stayed with his family. He grew up in an area that was right at the peace walls. He drove us there and it was quite shocking to see. The family didn't live there now and the area they lived in was very nice but still a bit random to walk down a nice street and then see a wall murual on the side on a house!

The pavements in some areas were painted red then white then blue on repeat and lots of union jack flags and red hands of Ulster, paramilitary messages and motos on the side of buildings like a kfc. I was a bit like wtf 😳

There are also random differences I had no idea about until recently. Like I have another friend that lives in Donegal and she always referred to Derry and my other friend called it Londonderry. I then started calling it Derry too and my other friend was like NO it's Londonderry! This is where I learned that you can tell whether someone is catholic or Protestant based on what they call it 😂

The city centre wasn't like that and was perfectly lovely and felt safe.

TooBigForMyBoots · 02/10/2024 21:17

HazelPlayer · 02/10/2024 20:10

I would imagine they rarely express such a wish.

For obvious reasons.

But anyway, it's important to acknowledge that that would be in both unionist and nationalist/republican communities.

Is that what you imagine?🙄

As long as that's what's in your imagination, that's alright. Right?

TooBigForMyBoots · 02/10/2024 21:41

Let's take it out of what you imagine @HazelPlayer. I worked for a MH charity in North Belfast. We asked that flags be removed from the lamppost outside our building. We were told "no".

We were later told that we'd have to pay "protection" money. Again the answer was "no". In the end, we had to move.

The people of Woodburn and the Shankill pay their "taxes" every Friday or suffer intimidation. Flag flying on lampposts is disrespectful and akin to dogs pissing to mark their territory.

User12356 · 02/10/2024 22:02

HazelPlayer · 02/10/2024 18:59

As an Irish person I have also been shocked by the flags in NI. I knew they existed but I think seeing them in reality and seeing the extent of them felt very intimidating

Presuming you don't feel intimidated by your own country's flag (which makes up quite a proportion of the flags put up in NI!), I presume you mean the Union Jacks or Ulster flags?.

What exactly intimidates you about seeing the flag of the actual country you're visiting?

It's part of the UK.

People in the areas it's up in, put it up because they feel threatened with not being part of the UK and desperately want to stay in the UK.

Or do you mean the other random flags, like Orange Order/Palestine/Israel etc?

(Random fact; the Irish Tricolour represents the Green of Ireland, the Orange of Orangeism and white for peace. It was intended to be a representative, uniting flag. Which is pretty sad in retrospect).

Edited

I am the poster who wrote this.
Yes, I am more intimidated by the Union Jack's for obvious reasons.
However I don't like to see the Irish flags either.
The Union Jack's were much more visible but that may just be the parts I visited.

FiveGoMadInDorset · 02/10/2024 22:05

Have been going to Northern Ireland since 1990, after I met my friend at college who comes from near Ballymena, live it a lot, DD just started at Queens Belfast

BanksysSprayCan · 02/10/2024 22:05

I have only been to Belfast, but would love to go again and see more of the coast and countryside. It looks beautiful from photographs.

Treesinmygarden · 02/10/2024 22:26

RaymondaHolt · 02/10/2024 20:47

The "Brits" would probably have been quite happy to wash their hands of the island entirely.

Another example that just doesn't make sense to me @Hazelplayer

I think she's right sadly! NI is a cost drain on the UK. I remember years ago seeing Edwina Currie on Question Time and she ranted at length about the resources NI needed! It was horrible!

Treesinmygarden · 02/10/2024 22:29

tediber · 02/10/2024 21:08

I've been twice mainly in and around the Belfast area. Once for a few days and once for a week. This was about 20 yrs ago. My friends dad was from there. We stayed with his family. He grew up in an area that was right at the peace walls. He drove us there and it was quite shocking to see. The family didn't live there now and the area they lived in was very nice but still a bit random to walk down a nice street and then see a wall murual on the side on a house!

The pavements in some areas were painted red then white then blue on repeat and lots of union jack flags and red hands of Ulster, paramilitary messages and motos on the side of buildings like a kfc. I was a bit like wtf 😳

There are also random differences I had no idea about until recently. Like I have another friend that lives in Donegal and she always referred to Derry and my other friend called it Londonderry. I then started calling it Derry too and my other friend was like NO it's Londonderry! This is where I learned that you can tell whether someone is catholic or Protestant based on what they call it 😂

The city centre wasn't like that and was perfectly lovely and felt safe.

You can't totally any more because a lot of us who might be expected to call it 'Londonderry', actually call it 'Derry', because why waste two syllables?!!

Sharptonguedwoman · 02/10/2024 22:35

In my head a background of bombings and sectarian troubles, shootings and kneecappings and the Maze prison. On the news seemingly all the time, colleague who grew up there for a bit telling stories about driving through the checkpoints. Orange marches. Ian Paisley, Gerry Adams. From my being about 10 to 40 something.
I realise this is very dour and gloomy. The Good Friday Agreement being miraculous.
I'd love to see the Giant's Causeway but I must be the only person in the world who isn't fascinated by the Titanic.

Friends who've travelled there say it's beautiful.

Treesinmygarden · 02/10/2024 22:38

TooBigForMyBoots · 02/10/2024 21:41

Let's take it out of what you imagine @HazelPlayer. I worked for a MH charity in North Belfast. We asked that flags be removed from the lamppost outside our building. We were told "no".

We were later told that we'd have to pay "protection" money. Again the answer was "no". In the end, we had to move.

The people of Woodburn and the Shankill pay their "taxes" every Friday or suffer intimidation. Flag flying on lampposts is disrespectful and akin to dogs pissing to mark their territory.

Oh I get that @TooBigForMyBoots! A previous job was in the heartland of a leader of the local UVF. We'd people working with us from the local estate who were literally afraid to even voice his name!

It also wouldn't be the first time I've heard (through work) "do you know who my dad/father/brother is?!" The paramilitaries are all into extortion and drugs now.

On the plus side, there's plenty of places it's not like that.

Treesinmygarden · 02/10/2024 22:48

Sharptonguedwoman · 02/10/2024 22:35

In my head a background of bombings and sectarian troubles, shootings and kneecappings and the Maze prison. On the news seemingly all the time, colleague who grew up there for a bit telling stories about driving through the checkpoints. Orange marches. Ian Paisley, Gerry Adams. From my being about 10 to 40 something.
I realise this is very dour and gloomy. The Good Friday Agreement being miraculous.
I'd love to see the Giant's Causeway but I must be the only person in the world who isn't fascinated by the Titanic.

Friends who've travelled there say it's beautiful.

Oh no, I'm not fascinated by Titanic and I didn't visit the museum until last year - one of those things you never do because it's on your doorstep! - and I was so impressed. It was so well done and so really moving!

The Giant's Causeway is amazing! The entire north coast is stunning. It is theee most beautiful drive from Belfast along the north coast road, and you are doubly blessed if you happen upon a sunny day, as I did with my dear friend last November! And the Mourne Mountains and surrounding areas down into Newcastle. The lakes of Fermanagh. So many beautiful spots.

tediber · 02/10/2024 22:53

@Treesinmygarden That's interesting and I totally get it as that was my thinking, it's quicker lol. My friend def wldnt agree she wld call it Londonderry always and all her family but she is quite particular about these things!

Treesinmygarden · 02/10/2024 23:07

@Sharptonguedwoman I meant to say, I lived through all of that. Thankfully not in close proximity but sometimes it did come all too close. A relative had his work van hijacked and was made to drive a bomb to the intended location. I couldn't get my school shoes for starting secondary school because there were firebombs going off in the shops. The shop owner delivered them to me. Three people died in a bombing in my nearest town. Another relative had their shop burned out twice in firebombings. And of course, the news was all doom and gloom. We seldom ventured to Belfast without very good reason.

I was in a tutorial in University Square at QUB when a law lecturer was shot dead outside. We were so stupid/naive though! We'd go into town for something, and there'd be the inevitable white tape (police cordon), and instead of getting the fuck out of Dodge, we tried to find another way around it!! The innocence of youth!

I was in a mixed group one night when we were waylaid by thugs with broom handles outside the Crescent bar in Sandy Row (major loyalist enclave, popular with students, mainly the Law faculty which was known for having more Catholic than Protestant pupils - go figure!! - mainly because they seemed to get drink that had fallen off the back of a lorry!!) It was near the bar that 'Hurricane' Higgins drank in. I never felt comfortable in it. Now DH managed to talk our way out of that one!

The office I worked in in Belfast at the time was bombed one night. There was the traditional newsflash on the BBC with the accompanying call, "could all keyholders please go and check their premises?" Well I was the only keyholder in the country at the time, so was I fuck going near it late at night on my own!

When I went the following morning, there were already people in clearing up the debris! It was so so efficient! I was chilled to see the massive piece of glass that was embedded in the back of my chair!

There's loads more - it's just all coming back to me as I type! Suffice it to say, it's amazing that we got from where we were then to where we are now. I did move away for a while but I always wanted to come home. I can't actually believe all of those things happened but it was the reality here. I remember being really upset by the Omagh bomb, for obvious reasons, but what drove it home to me was the pregnant lady, and I was not long pregnant then with my 2nd.

What I see now, looking back, is the amazing resilience of the people of NI and how we dealt with the mayhem around us. Yes, there are obviously people deeply affected who still suffer from trauma all these years on. The rest of us got by with a bit of grit and a (dark!) sense of humour.

People here are still amazing. I remember when I lived and worked in London, an elderly gentleman had a fall at a tube station on the Piccadilly line. I heard a voice go, "oh the poor wee man!" as she rushed to help, and I knew the owner of the voice was from 'home'. I'd gone to school with her sister!!

Treesinmygarden · 02/10/2024 23:10

tediber · 02/10/2024 22:53

@Treesinmygarden That's interesting and I totally get it as that was my thinking, it's quicker lol. My friend def wldnt agree she wld call it Londonderry always and all her family but she is quite particular about these things!

Oh there are people who would be mortally offended by me calling it Derry but tbh that's their problem! My own brother insists in calling it Londonderry. I don't care either way. Probably a lot of my relatives would say Londonderry too!

I guess it's (a) laziness!! or (b) that more of the people I know/work with/meet call it Derry?

Southwest12 · 02/10/2024 23:12

I visited Derry on a trip organised by our university lecturer when we were doing a module on the Troubles. I loved it so much I moved there to do my Masters. When my dad visited it was the first time he'd been back to Northern Ireland since 1972... when he'd been patrolling up the Falls in the back of an army land-rover!

I worked at Altnagelvin and we had a whole memo on "the recording of addresses in the Derry city area".

Treesinmygarden · 02/10/2024 23:20

Southwest12 · 02/10/2024 23:12

I visited Derry on a trip organised by our university lecturer when we were doing a module on the Troubles. I loved it so much I moved there to do my Masters. When my dad visited it was the first time he'd been back to Northern Ireland since 1972... when he'd been patrolling up the Falls in the back of an army land-rover!

I worked at Altnagelvin and we had a whole memo on "the recording of addresses in the Derry city area".

I'd actually never been in Derry that much until a few years ago, and sometimes now I have to go for work purposes. I've had many friends from there and the Derry accent is so distinctive! A friend of mine from school lived in a houseful of Derry girls at uni and she ended up sounding just like them!!

I was doing a course in London in the late 80s and we were all introducing ourselves. And there, sure enough, was a Derry accent. Turned out my friend had shared a house with her younger sister and I knew her too!

Notmoog · 02/10/2024 23:27

it's a bit Rhyl

Treesinmygarden · 02/10/2024 23:30

Notmoog · 02/10/2024 23:27

it's a bit Rhyl

Wha'?

Throwhandsupintheair · 02/10/2024 23:30

We know a South American family who moved to NI a few years ago and had to leave a couple of years back as their children (primary aged) were physically attacked at school multiple times for being brown. Nothing was really done about it, and they didn’t feel welcome or safe.

We wanted to visit the Titanic museum but as a mixed raced family, we’re not keen on spending money to suffer 1970s style discrimination.