To ask if anyone deliberately plans/uses their sick leave as part of their entitlement?

[OneOpenRedShaker]

I know some people who treat sick leave as an entitlement and plan/schedule when to use it, even when they’re not seriously ill. I’m curious to know if anyone else does this, or if most people reserve it for when they’re genuinely sick. Do you view sick leave as a right to use as needed, or is it something that should be used sparingly?

The only time I ever pulled a sickie I ended up getting genuinely unwell with a sickness bug a week later. My employer was understanding but the experience gave me a fright so I’ve never done it since.

None of that is remotely (pun intended) relevant to your vitriol about people taking volunteering days they are perfectly entitled to.

This sick days 'entitlement' infuriates me. It isn't an entitlement. It's a benefit that's paid (full pay/whatever, at the discretion of the company/business/management) if someone is unable to work due to being ill/having surgery/recovering.

since when has sick pay been an 'entitlement' that you have to use?? 🙄

It's astonishing that so many people here know others who have a three (or six) month on/off work/sick routine. Some have even admitted to doing this themselves - playing the system because they know what they can get away with. Don't employers reach the stage where they decide someone is unemployable? Doesn't Occy Health step in?

@GivingitToGod in my civil service department we have three volunteering days a year. You tend to do them in a field connected to your role and it has to be with an approved organisation. Brilliant scheme and benefits like these go some way to compensating for our terrible pay 😊

For all those asking why NHS workers are not being' managed out' for poor attendance, I am a manager who has tried to manage several staff with poor attendance and poor performance and sometimes both so I can explain why it is a very lengthy process that some managers ignore.
Firstly, many of the people who are off frequently for long periods are people with long term mental health conditions sick as Anxiety, depression, Bipolar. These are known as ' protected characteristics' which rightly prevent an employer from just sacking someone for our performance. If you have a combination of a protected characteristic and our performance, HR will not let you manage the performance until the person is well enough. If someone is off for 6 months and comes back on a phased return, they have a monthof reduced hours and they have 6 months accrued annual leave on top of the leave they have left. Many use this leave to work a shorter week or take emergency leave instead of sick leave if they are then unwell again. This gets them easily to their 3 month review without further absence and if they then book in rest of annual leave, it is not hard to get through the next 3 months. Our NHS sickness policy has moved away from seeing absence targets and we are told we just need to see an improvement, so if they were off for 6 months and in the next 6 months only off for a week or so( bearing in mind how much annual leave they also have) then that is an improvement that we have too accept. I have had staff oscillate between sickness management and performance management and eventually moved to lower grade jobs out of NHS with less stress and less hours or taken ill health retirement .Some are ongoing and complex. I cannot describe the complexity as would be identifying but just think complex health, complex health of loved ones, bereavements etc all thrown in. To try and manage within HR rules, Occ Health advice and be compassionate and supportive, whilst trying to support also the poor teams who are chronically short staffed due to the illness is incredibly time consuming for busy managers and seldom gets done as well as it should be and in as timely a manner as it should be.

I've only once worked somewhere which has this sort of sick leave 'entitlement' and I wouldn't have dared use it for anything other than genuine illness because I just know I would have needed it for something genuine straight afterwards. I'm not generally a superstitious person, but I always felt that lying about illness was a guarantee I would come down with something really awful the next week and it would seem highly suspicious.

Possibly the best post I've ever read on here.

It is literally impossible

No, absolutely not!

But how on earth do these people taking massive amounts of sick leave get fit notes from their GPs for such long periods of time? Mine would just tell me to lose weight and exercise more. That's his remedy for everything. You've got to be on your deathbed before he'll sign you off from work, and thankfully I haven't needed to be for about 15 years, but I can only assume that some GPs are a bit more lax about it. I can only assume that they are reporting conditions such as stress/anxiety/depression where there is no diagnostic test, just the reported symptoms of the individual. Which if so is pretty appalling and no doubt stigmatises people who do actually suffer from those conditions and makes employers less likely to hire them.

I'm a manager in the CS and in my very small department we don't have people taking the piss. Those who are on long term sick are actually ill and our systems would absolutely flag any patterns of taking the maximum sick leave, then returning and then going back off sick when they are back to full entitlement. And also the Mondays and Fridays etc. But our teams are small and we all know each other pretty well so I think we would recognise if something wasn't right.

If you ask for one they'll give you one. I don't think most GPs give them out unasked for but yeah if you say 'I'm feeling really stressed/tired/depressed can you write me a sick note?' they will.

Think it must depend on which council/department. In mine there is someone who took off 6 months every year for 5 years or so as none of the managers dealt with it. Still happening now!! I gave up trying to manage it as nothing would ever stick as the union kept intervening making threats and excuses which hr bowed to.

As new staff begin they definitely do see the culture of taking sick days and copy it. Why would you push yourself to come in when most of your colleagues don't? No one bothers managing it so people keep doing it. If their child is sick they'll say they are sick so they get it paid.

We regularly have people taking 6 months off full pay. Had someone hurt themselves, genuine injury, seeing doctors and physio etc. But it was obvious they could return after 3 months to reduced duties. Like another colleague had previous year. But nope, they took the full 6 months!

Honestly, if it wasn't such a good job for having a young family I'd high tail it back to the private sector!!

Hello0
Yes maybe.
After e ery sickness we have a return to work interview that is quite in depth.
If we are off sick for the forth time in two years it is flagged up and explored why you are repeatedly being off sick and patterns of sickness are monitored eg school holidays every sickness is on a Monday or Friday etc.
I think it's fair enough.
I remember years ago when the policy wasn't robust and we were having a team meeting. The manager asked why "Angela" wasn't in and someone said she had rung in sick. Without missing a beat the manager muttered something like " it must be the start of the school holidays as this person was well known for sick leave in the summer.
Thankfully things have tightened up and I can't think of anyone else that's played the system in years.

Godd lord no, what would I do if I was actually sick?

Yes they're meant to monitor and follow the absence processes but they just don't. Only when the person is absolutely completely fucking them over. So the 5 year person is now being managed because it's finally become untenable for them. Otherwise, people just are left to it. They get moaned about but nothing more unless their colleagues start kicking up a lot of fuss to management.
It does really lower morale and you can only be around it so long before it affects you too.

I have worked in both the private sector and the public sector.

The difference is striking.

In the public sector there is absolutely no desire by management to tackle malingering.
For example the removal of a mandatory retirement age in the civil service, elderly people, in their 70’s are being allowed to work and being given ‘reasonable adjustments’ to compensate for age related issues such as getting tired easily, not understanding new technology etc . It’s crazy.