To be annoyed?

[49OnCloud9]

Hi

NC as this could be outing. I don't really know if I'm posting for advice or a rant, I just don't know if I'm being unrationally UR and what I can do about it. I am 30 and have 2 younger brothers. This issue relates to the youngest, I am LC with this B aswell as with my M.

Background: myself and my other brother have had quite significant trauma in our childhood and early adulthood. Alot of abuse, neglect from M and being in and out of the care system. I at the age of 17 had 2 children removed from birth and adopted through the ss. I now have a 6m old baby who is in my care. My youngest brother (11) was born after this, so has learned about these specific events through our mother. God knows why.

For years, every time i see my youngest brother he finds a way to mention my childhood trauma in specific ways. Its not just a one off but every single time and what he bring ups up is very intrusive and triggering for me. I do not recall a time ever that I've saw him and I've not been bombarded with comments or questions regarding my childhood or the children I no longer have. I have tried my best to ignore it or ask him to stop but deep down I struggle with this for a couple of hours after he leaves. But ultimately I've coped with these interactions.

The issue is, I've now had another baby and the comments still keep coming, though now he is voicing these comments about MY trauma to my child. He says things like "you look so much like X but it's a shame you'll never meet her" and "I hope your not as bad as Y (me) and Z (other b) when your older". Those are just the timid comments he makes directly to my DD infront of me. He also purposely will direct any comment or question about my DD to my DGP when I'm literally sat there. Like, he asks them what my DD is learning or eating etc.

It's actually very hurtful and he's just plain mean. He's 11 years old and I just don't understand why he chooses to only ever treat me with contempt and will only ever talk to me when it's to mention my trauma. I feel internal rage whenever I see him and I just don't know how to deal with this or why it's even happening in the first place. Its obvious the details of my past have come from my mother but why keep making me relive it constantly 12 years later when he wasn't even part of it all back then?!

Do you ever tell him, that it is completely inappropriate for him to be making the comments or asking the questions?

Honestly, he’s 11, he’s still a child himself. This may all sound like some kind of story to him that he cannot understand or wrap his head around, he doesn’t understand what boundaries there are, he probably doesn’t even understand that what he is saying is hurtful as to him it’s factual- there were other babies, he hasn’t seen them, he is probably trying to engage the best he knows how.

If you are low contact with him then it’s also not massively surprising that he doesn’t direct questions to you, he will speak “at” the people he knows best, maybe out of nerves/a bit shy. One of my younger cousins does this, ask his parents questions about my baby that he could ask me, he’s just more comfortable with that.

I’d also consider the fact, given your upbringing by the same mother, that be may be going through things himself and what he hears/learns from his parents will be playing a big role in how he speaks, develops, understands etc. Remember he can only know these things if he has been told, kids are sponges, they remember and repeat what they hear, so the person to be annoyed with her is your mum, not your little brother. You know what she is like from your own childhood.

Wow, really sorry for the long post. Just to add a couple of things as I feel they are important.

I can't go from LC to NC with mum and brother because it would stop me being able to visit my grandparents, as that's how I end up in these stupid interactions in the first place. My GP's think his comments are bizarre and wrong but all they say is he's just a kid. Yes but kids don't treat people like this for years do they? So if I went NC I would also have to cut off my GP.

He also does the same to my other brother, so this isn't personal to just me. Its both of us siblings. I sometimes wonder if its contempt because he's not an only child, but then again we are both adults now and technically didnt even have a "mother" compared to him so what difference would our birth or non birth be to him?!

Also, my worry is that my DD is going to have to grow up constantly in discussion about my trauma and past failings. She's going to hear about her siblings from him in an likely very inappropriate way and im scared my own DD will likely either be ridiculed by him constantly or manipulated into not even liking me because of what happened before I was 18.

Are your GP immobile? I'm wondering why you can't meet them away from your brother perhaps at yours or at a cafe.

I would tell your brother that his comments are inappropriate and you'd like him to stop. If he doesn't then leave.

He is a child who has grown up with the same parent that failed you. He is still in the middle of his own trauma. Talking about what happened to you and the choices you made once you had freedom is a way he processes his situation.

If you want it to stop, then talk to him. Find out what he is dealing with. Help him learn to make better choices so he doesn’t end up making the same mistakes you made.

you both were saddled with poor parenting. The difference is that he has an older sister who eventually figured out her life and might be able to help him find an easier path out.

Absolutely this.

Don’t go no contact with or blame an innocent 11 year old who is a product of the same upbringing that you had. The only difference between you and him is that you are years ahead of him, if you can help him with your newfound knowledge, strength and confidence his life will be all the better for it.

Tension in a dysfunctional family can express itself between siblings. Maybe your little brother is voicing things that older family members are thinking, or maybe he is repeating something he's overheard adults saying, or maybe he realises that his words shock you and repeats them to get an effect. Very upsetting for you whatever the cause. Remember he's still a child and that he will have suffered to an extent from the family dynamics even if in a less dramatic way from you. Maybe you could try saying kindly Oh, give it a rest, we don't need to keep hearing this stuff, tell us about you and what you've been up to.

To those saying not to go NC, how exactly do you propose constantly being forced to relive your own trauma and being shamed for it just to maintain contact incase he is in his own trauma?

I get he's a child, which is why I make sure my reaction and responses remain internal. I have told him multiple times that these comments are inappropriate and hurtful. That they are my children and my past issues that have nothing to do with him and he needs to stop but he doesn't.

Am I really going to have to explain my other children and my background to my DD from 1 year old or something because she will be forced to grow up wondering who the hell her uncle is constantly shaming me about and comparing her to? Is that at all right or appropriate just because he's a child? Do I really just have to put up with this and never be able to fully move on from my past because I'm always going to be shamed by my brother?

Just to be clear he isn't always going to be a child and this has been going on since he was around 7/8 years old.

Gently, I think you might not have a great perspective here.

He is growing up with the same environment as you. Yes an 11 year old should know it’s not appropriate. But I would assume he has been failed in the same you did.

There’s clearly a lot in your own life where you ‘should have known better’ but due to circumstances you didn’t.

I know someone who was brought up by her Dad. And later Dad and step mum. Her upbringing was awful. I know her much younger half sister. The older one really thinks the younger one had an idyllic childhood. But the younger one didn’t. It wasn’t as horrific as the older one’s childhood. Their Dad didn’t hit the younger one, or force them to commit petty theft. Like he did with the older. But both parents were still neglectful alcoholics, left the younger one in the care of a man they knew had been accused of Sexual assault of children and so on.

But to the older one, from her frame of reference it was great. And I can understand that. But it wasn’t. It was abusive, just slightly less abusive.

What I am saying is, you may say your brother has had a different life to you. But while it’s likely he might have a different life, it’s still (probably) a damaging one.

I would suggest either seeing grandparents away from the house or talking one on one with your brother about why it’s not appropriate

Well it sounds like your abusive mother is continually discussing these concepts with him. He wasn’t even born when your DC were in your care so these comments about how your little one looks like your older DC are clearly directed.

I think you need to recognise what this is, continued manipulation from your mother and damage to both her and your child.

I really empathise with the fact that when you come from an abusive home, it is really hard to assert and even possess healthy boundaries, but your worries and concerns about your DD are valid and I would not prioritise contact with your GPs at the cost of facilitating contact.

I know people like your mum will make it feel impossible, but you really can cut or at least drastically lower contact, it really is within your power.

You have had a vulnerable start in life due to your mother. You absolutely should focus on your support network outside of this toxic situation and nurture it, like with your DB and friends with children.

Abuse is so often perpetuated down the generations for various reasons, and it my suspicion would be that your little brother is already caught in the dynamic of being the favoured child in order to avoid your mother’s wrath. It’s something I think is really common amongst siblings with abusive or narcissistic parents. The comments about how he doesn’t want your baby to end up like you two solidifies that.

You can get help and support to recognise these unhealthy dynamics, and ultimately free yourself from them. Motherhood can be so empowering like that, it can give you the strength to go above and beyond to protect your child.

Use that love and strength. It’s time to break the cycle.

Your mother may be constantly spouting bile about you, and poisoning his mind. I suspect she is still an abusive mother too. Very sad.

I’m not sure what you want people to say OP, he is a child. He was a child age 7/8 and he’s still a child age 11, you cannot hold him to the same standards you do an adult because he simply isn’t one.

In the same way that you don’t want to be defined by the person you were at 17 (and rightfully so, we all grow up, get older, change), it would be unfair to define him as the child he is at 11.

Only you can decide how you want to proceed with this but it is incredibly unfair to take any of this out on an 11 year old boy who is being raised by the same mother you know gave you such a difficult childhood, he is literally in the exact same situation you were back then.

Don’t listen, do go NC.

If you have concerns regarding your young brother’s wellbeing, report them frequently whenever it comes up. Does your adult brother have children? If so can he keep checking in to see how he is? What kind of abuse do you think he might be subject to?

Every child should be protected from abuse, but you are a victim of this situation and have a vulnerable child of your own, who must come first. Just because you are aware of the issue with your younger brother, does not mean you have the responsibility or ability to solve it. Objectively and kindly, you are already showing this by your feelings being directed at him and not her. And that’s okay.

I would fucking raise hell to be honest, I would report your DM and I would explain in an age appropriate way as is possible that you didn’t have a good home life and didn’t have support and that is a big reason you are in this situation bow. I would cut contact and if GPs are actually worth their salt and not part of the problem, they would understand and make arrangements to have contact with you and DD still.

Also OP you say this “…not liking me because of what happened before I was 18.”

You acknowledge that the person you were at 17 is not the adult and person you are now. But yet you seem convinced to decide that this 11 year old boy “won’t be a child forever and has done this since 7/8 years old”. The ONLY difference between you and him is time, you’ve had the time and space and experience to grow into the adult you are now, he is still a child and hasn’t had that yet.

You don’t want to be always reminded and defined as the person you were at 17 while at the same time seem determined to define him by the way he behaves at age 11 meaning he will always be that way? That’s not really fair.

Either you agree we all grow up and change or you don’t, but you have to pick one.

If it is at all possible I’d try to approach this by speaking to your mum first of all.

You keep saying PP are urging you to go NC, but I'd don't think any actually are? Rather, we are urging for compassion for the 11 year old - the same compassion you wish someone had treated you with when you were that age going through so much in an awful situation. An 11 year old will find the idea of a child being taken away from its parents very scary, and all his questions may be to try to understand and to distance what happened to you from the possibility of something like that happening to him.

You must definitely go NC with your "mother" and your younger brother.
You have to do it to protect yourself and your own child.

I wouldn't be able to cope with your younger brother and his comments.
I understand that he is young and he is living with a mother who is probably abusive but as a matter of personal survival I would need to go no contact with him and your mother.
I say this as someone who had emotionally abusive parents and a traumatic experience with the death of my first baby. I can't even imagine how horrible his comments must be for you.

@Mrsttcno1 what I'm wanting out of this post is...
1.To understand if this is normal

1. To get advice on how to deal with these encounters moving forward
2. To figure out the best way to reduce any impact this may cause to my very young child being around this.

Again, I understand he is a child. I do not like him or like being around him but I do not solely hold him responsible. I'm not seeking out a vigilante of an 11 year old. I'm seeking advice on what I can do for my own wellbeing. Because quite frankly the comments are that excessive and bad that if I hadn't the tools to remain as mentally stable, I'd be off self harming or worse after every time I happened to find myself in his company. How is that okay, simply because he's 11? I'm asking for help to deal with it better moving forward for my own sake and most definitely for my DD.

Also obviously I can’t know this, but seeing first hand how absolutely awful and toxic narcissistic people can be, it literally wouldn’t surprise me if your mum is discussing this with him regularly, knowing full well he will bring this up, to see if you will ever retaliate and blame her.

Some people’s minds are so fucked up and confusing, I have seen people do things along these lines, because it’s like, they see your reticence to discuss the issue and lack of retaliation as validation. How do you think your mum would react if you explained to him, you were extremely young, had a shit homelife and no support, and that’s why you had to place your babies? Bet she wouldn’t be bloody happy would she.

Just remember to direct your anger at the right place, then to go further and remember that to be this way your mum must have issues, and while that doesn’t mean she doesn’t have any accountability, you could maybe start working on moving on and accepting you will never get a resolution from her. And above all? try and get some therapy and perspective so that you don’t perpetuate any of her behaviours. If you are blaming DB, you don’t want to aim stuff at DD as she grows. We all have things like this we need to be aware of xx

He’s 11 and could have all sorts going on. Curiosity / wondering about the babies… his relatives (children’s imaginations run wild with this sort of thing). He may worry (even subconsciously) that he could be taken into care. And I wonder in what terms your M told him about it?

He’s 11 so not his fault.

Could you take him for a walk and ask him how he feels about it, any questions, and then say now he knows it isn’t something you want to discuss again as you find it upsetting.

Your options really are limited, and totally up to you:

1. You go NC
2. You speak to him about it, properly, explain that is the past, it’s your past. Maybe a conversation about it will help him understand the situation better and you can chat about boundaries and what is and isn’t appropriate to say infront of your daughter?
3. You speak to your mum about it, only you know how well this would be received if at all, and whether it would make any difference.

It isn’t “okay”, but it’s also not his fault. As I say, he’s a child making mistakes based on the information and upbringing that he has had.

No my other brother doesn't have children, unfortunately he never actually escaped the trauma and went down a very bad path. He's been homeless, in & out of prison and is now currently detained under the MH act after being sectioned. My youngest brother also uses that information in his shame of us too, he goes around telling people his brother is in a nuthouse because he's a junkie who wants to kidnap him 🙄, so I really struggle to see how this is normal child treatment specifically aimed at ONLY us 2 siblings.

I really don't know if the 11 yo is actually being abused though, or if its anything more than verbal atleast. He has had the "spoiled" upbringing, gets everything he asks/demands, mother takes his lead with meals, days out etc... so it seems to have done a 180 of abuse compared to ours. It's like he has free reign for absolutely everything. He is treated like an adult, he is informed about everyone's misjustices and goes ballistic or crys forever if you ever disagree with him or attempt to reprimand him.

She's been reported though many times. They never see anything wrong or she works the system. Unfortunately this may be harsh but 11yo is not my concern anymore. I've been assaulted multiple times for making reports in the past and even for being honest with ss about my own abuse. My choice has to be my own safety and well being not an 11 yo who I struggle to sympathise with.

OP, you went through a lot in your life. You, by your own admission, had been through a lot at the age of 17.
He's 11. A child. Surely you must have some insight into his mindset - you both have the same vile birth mother

Tell him straight - he's out of order and he needs to mind his business, and his mouth
It sounds somewhat like both you and your GP are simply allowing this behaviour from him
And why can you not see your GP if you go NC with him?

I feel sorry for your little brother but he is going to fuck up your kids mental health if he carries on the way he is.

Why can you not see your GP if you go NC with him?

That may of been me being abit drastic. I didn't mean I'd never be able to see them but M and B randomly turn up at GPs house and if we happen to be there, that's the only way I'm forced into contact with them both. At times it could be regular random visits then nothing for months. So really it would get to the point where I stop going round to my GP home at all just incase they decide to turn up or we just leave as soon as they do, which as DD gets older will become increasingly confusing to her. The comments also start as soon as he lays eyes on me too so its not like leaving immediately would help us escape atleast 1 or 2 comments.