To be annoyed?

[49OnCloud9]

Hi

NC as this could be outing. I don't really know if I'm posting for advice or a rant, I just don't know if I'm being unrationally UR and what I can do about it. I am 30 and have 2 younger brothers. This issue relates to the youngest, I am LC with this B aswell as with my M.

Background: myself and my other brother have had quite significant trauma in our childhood and early adulthood. Alot of abuse, neglect from M and being in and out of the care system. I at the age of 17 had 2 children removed from birth and adopted through the ss. I now have a 6m old baby who is in my care. My youngest brother (11) was born after this, so has learned about these specific events through our mother. God knows why.

For years, every time i see my youngest brother he finds a way to mention my childhood trauma in specific ways. Its not just a one off but every single time and what he bring ups up is very intrusive and triggering for me. I do not recall a time ever that I've saw him and I've not been bombarded with comments or questions regarding my childhood or the children I no longer have. I have tried my best to ignore it or ask him to stop but deep down I struggle with this for a couple of hours after he leaves. But ultimately I've coped with these interactions.

The issue is, I've now had another baby and the comments still keep coming, though now he is voicing these comments about MY trauma to my child. He says things like "you look so much like X but it's a shame you'll never meet her" and "I hope your not as bad as Y (me) and Z (other b) when your older". Those are just the timid comments he makes directly to my DD infront of me. He also purposely will direct any comment or question about my DD to my DGP when I'm literally sat there. Like, he asks them what my DD is learning or eating etc.

It's actually very hurtful and he's just plain mean. He's 11 years old and I just don't understand why he chooses to only ever treat me with contempt and will only ever talk to me when it's to mention my trauma. I feel internal rage whenever I see him and I just don't know how to deal with this or why it's even happening in the first place. Its obvious the details of my past have come from my mother but why keep making me relive it constantly 12 years later when he wasn't even part of it all back then?!

Op you say you don’t think he is abused and the. Go to describe ways his emotional well being is being abused and neglected.

This is what I said above. From your point of view his upbringing is fine because it’s better than yours. But that doesn’t matter. It still causes harm.

How you deal with it, if it happens again is to say clearly and firmly ‘I want you stop bringing up xyz’ or ‘why do you bring that up when I have asked you not to? What are you trying to achieve’ The problem there is that he might not answer and he will have already said. So if hearing what he is saying is impacting your child, it won’t matter how you challenge it.

The only way to reduce the impact on your child is to bring her up in full (age appropriate) knowledge of what happened and ignore or play down anything he says.

But really the only way to protect your child from this is to go NC. Then Tell her in your own way.

YABU because he's a child. He doesn't understand the issues. He doesn't understand the hurt he's causing. Could you take him out somewhere, just the two of you and talk to him about it? Answer his questions calmly and compassionately, in a way appropriate for an 11 year old.

I'm really not dismissing or minimising the fact that he MAY be being abused too or that it may be in a different form. Whilst ive always said i wouldnt choose both styles of parenting that my mother has clearly chosen, I say MAY because I do wonder if there is potentially something more at play with how he is. Obviously my judgement is blinded because of how I now feel about him and being in his company but I just find this whole attack from people for not considering his age and circumstances confusing.

Many people aren't criticised for feeling this way about a murderer because they are a child and have or could have been abused... so why am I being criticised because I don't want to be victim to someone else playing a part in trying to abuse me regardless of their age or circumstances?

The consensus is basically that no it's not normal but it's not his fault he's borderline abusing me aswell because he's abused and also he's a child and knows no better?! Is this the reason that children abuse their own parents? Do they still deserve the same sympathy or is it just because I'm a sibling that this abuse doesn't really matter and I should just cut off every member of my family to avoid them or shut up and put up?!

OP I'm so sorry this is an awful situation. Your younger brother is being vile to you, but he can only be repeating what your mother is telling him.
Telling him to stop isn't working, so next time he starts his nonsense, just say, I've told you before not to keep repeating this rubbish, we're leaving. Sorry GPs we are off now see you soon. And leave.
Or save yourself some time and leave as soon as they turn up.

Op, the situation is much too complex for AIBU. I agree with some that he is a kid and can’t be held responsible for abuse…however, that doesn’t mean you are obliged to maintain contact with him. It’s clearly very distressing to you and I think you’ve a responsibility to YOURSELF first and foremost, not to your brother. Meet your grandparents on neutral ground and go low/no contact with your brother. For your own sake.

The point people are making OP is that at his age, with his upbringing, he probably doesn’t even realise that what he is saying. It’s not “taboo” to him, it’s factual, he’s been told that you have other children, he/you don’t see those children, so “ah X looks like Y, it’s a shame she’ll never meet her” isn’t necessarily the dig or insult that you see it as, it’s a factual comment.

Saying your older brother is “in the nuthouse”- he has heard that SOMEWHERE, so he’s repeating it.

There’s a huge difference between a child repeating what they’ve been told by their parents, which is very normal, and a child murderer.

If he doesn’t have much of a relationship with you or your brother then all he knows of you is what he hears and finds out from other people, primarily your mum. If she says those things to him at home then how is he meant to know it’s not okay to say those things? His mum does it, so why would he think that he can’t do it?

And again I’d go back to, he is 11. You’ve said yourself you had a tough childhood with children removed at 17, but I’m sure now as an adult you’d say you are nothing like you were at 17. You say yourself you don’t want to be reminded or shamed for those mistakes, and yet you’re holding an 11 year old to account, deciding that he will always be this way because he is that way now at 11.

You can distance yourself from them as much as possible if you feel you need to, go NC if that is what you want to do, but continuing to focus on the behaviour of a child that is only modelling their parent isn’t going to get you anywhere and you’ll spend your life running in circles with it.

As others have suggested why not go out with him alone and chat about it all? Answer his questions, explain to him that it is the past and you don’t want to discuss it anymore, it may be the unknown or just simply not understanding where social boundaries lie. If he’s brought up by a mum who says these things in conversation at home then he is going to think that is totally normal behaviour, because in their home it is.

So you don’t see the difference?

Would you see the difference if someone said you don’t deserve compassion after having multiple children removed because people don’t have compassion for murderers that had a traumatic upbringing?

I obviously don’t think that, but that’s the comparison you are making. And plenty of us do have compassion for kids that have committed horrific crimes and have been been abused. That doesn’t mean we don’t also think they did an awful thing. You can have compassion for what they have been through and also be horrified by what someone does.

Your family is abusive and your mother is abusing your brother who, in turn is abusing you because he doesn’t know any better.

Just like you didn’t know any better when you made your bad choices. Do you hope that when your older children are adults they would have some compassion for the situation you found yourself in? You are the adult in this situation, you have been where he is and come out the other side.

However, you can’t change his behaviour. There’s not something magical that you could say that will just make him stop. You can’t make people behave how you want them to. Even if they are the ones behaving badly. What you can do is choose to not be around those people and not subject yourself or your child to that behaviour. To protect your child, as you believe this will impact them, it doesn’t matter what the ins and outs are. You can have compassion for the situation he is in AND not be around him.

It is pretty clear from your ongoing posts that you aren’t in a position to help him, so you probably are best keeping your distance.

as for your child finding out about you past and about other siblings, the no surprises philosophy is going to work in your favor. Your 1 year old should never have a sit down conversation where she learns about the children who you lost, she should just always know about them. It could start with some bedtime stories or just talk about them casually. Let them be part of the family ethos. Not part of everyday conversation, but mentioned occasionally so she has always known and there is no secret. As for the abuse, that is harder, but you sprinkle that in as well in an age appropriate way. Mommy had a tough time growing up but she works hard now to make sure our home is filled with love and happiness. I’ve never have told my teenager the knitty gritty details of my abuse, because she shouldn’t have to deal with that, but she eventually got old enough to know some very broad information like that there is a family history of addiction.

I dont want or expect sympathy, compassion or pity,etc for having my children removed or anything to do with my past. I want to not have to relive it every single time I happen to be in a room with these particular people 12 YEARS LATER, surely that is what most people who has suffered some form of trauma or significant event in their life also want. Does that make me UR?

I'm not asking if he is a demon child, I'm not asking for people to give me reasons to why he is treating me this way. Im not even asking for a debate on who is right or wrong. I am asking HOW I CAN DEAL WITH THIS MOViNG FORWARD!!! I can go NC with my whole family to avoid them yes but I am asking is there another option? Is it possible to continue to grow and heal but also have to deal with the shaming and revisiting on a loop actually possible? Is this likely to cause damage to my DD too growing up if I don't go NC.

It seems the only solution for my wellbeing and I was asking if that was UR for the reasons stated. But a pile on because of his age and blame is all I got. So thank you MN. You've been brilliant help.

The real option is to help him deal with his issues. No one is piling on, that is just the reality. You aren’t responsible for rescuing him, but likewise, you can’t make him stop without addressing the real problem.

Also just to clarify, i didnt ever plan to keep the existence of my DD's siblings a secret. I will talk to her about them in age approriate ways and make syre its a nornalised topic throughout her life. However that information is MINE to share and should not be taken out of my hands by my brother making these comments and it should also not force me into revealing inappropriate details earlier than i and my dd are ready for.

I'm going to leave this thread now as its becoming quite triggering to read. So thank you everyone for your time replying. It hasn't helped me but I do appreciate everyone's views.

I'm sorry you didn't get what you were looking for here OP. Suggest you try relationships instead of AIBU, or the We took you to stately homes thread for people who have been through what you have and will have experience of dealing with abusive families.

Op I mean this gently. But you’re so het up you’re not understanding what people are saying.

thry are saying don’t blame the child. Blame the mother. He is what she is making him. She knows he is doing this. She is clearly encouraging it.

im sorry, but stop focusing on the symptom, and deal with the sickness, your issue is with your mother. Speak to her. Tell her it is unacceptable and if he doesn’t stop, then. Yes, on the rare occasion you will need to leave. You simply tell your mother it is unacceptable and leave.

Does that make sense, your mother has weaponised her son. He is being abused. From a young age.

it is like if someone stabs you; you are saying it is due to the knife. People are telling uou it’s due to who,wielded the knife. And that’s your mother,

You asked how to move forward, and I really think this situation is damaging and toxic enough for you and your child to go NC.

As said, if you have a good relationship with the grandparents, then if they are genuinely good people, they will understand and support you.

I don't think there is a better solution, I'm sorry to say. If you keep on as you are, you will continue to be damaged and triggered, and I think it will erode at your attempts to self improvement, because these wounds run deep.

If you go low contact, then your focus for weeks and months at a time might be centred around those visits.

I genuinely think the best thing for you is a fresh start. It doesn't sound like you have a familial support network around you, and if your GPs aren't on board with you minimising the abuse you are suffering, they are not part of it either.

I wouldn't do any announcements by the way, when going NC, I would just make excuses and then drift.

It's really sad but sometimes our families are not functional or healthy environments and relationships for us. You have recognised this and want to move forward with your life. Ultimately this is a good thing.

But practically, what does this information do for the OP?

Even if she understands that it's the mother's actions and the child is a victim/pawn himself, it doesn't give OP the coping skills and emotional toolkit, nor the obligation, to sustain contact.