Change in Working from Home procedure

[HappyKite2067]

I have a fairly flexible job, I’m expected to be on site for certain meetings and activities but for the past 2 years, outside of this I could work from home. We are now being encouraged to be onsite more and although we don’t have a WFH policy, the procedure has changed. We now can only WFH limited days and we have to seek permission to do so. It feels like my job, which was previously very flexible and suited me, has turned into quite a micro managed job. Am I being unreasonable to think this is something to be bothered about, and raise with HR? Or are most work places now starting to push staff back into the office?

I have done both for many years and am now semi retired. However a sizeable % of people abuse the flexiability and often seem to fit in some work amongst the many family tasks they now undertake - school runs, having to speak to the school about xxxx, dog walking, shopping and various other very important reasons why they feel they can 'make up the time'. In my experience they rarely do. Unless you are working completely seperately from everyone else in your workplace and dont need to be there for normal business hours it really doesnt work and so many people have spolit for others - its not sustainable.

Why are companies pushing back on the benefit (and it IS a benefit) if it works well?

There was a thread recently where a poster said her 2 year old was often seen in the background of calls and everyone welcomed her (yeah right!). Clients and customers must be over the moon that they are not being listened to because actually your attention is diverted.

You then get some employees who send all their emails after/before core hours and never seem to be available for urgent calls or when there is a customer issue. They pop up eventually and think no one notices their lack of availability.

That is OK ocassionally but realistically emails often need a phone call follow up rather than people sending an email and not wanting to speak to anyone about it (wonder why - what could they possibility be doing??)

I'm always surprised how many people on MN don't seem aware of how much people take the piss in office and work in person environments. There's a hyper awareness of it when it's happening remotely, compared to a see no evil hear no evil when it's happening in offices.

I think what annoys me about the push to go back to the office is that wages in the UK are so stagnant and so low against the rising costs of living. If a company can’t afford to pay more (or choose not to) they should at least let the employee save hundreds of pounds a month in the money you end up spending on travel and coffees when your train is delayed in the freezing cold etc.

If I’m in some high paid tech job and they tell me go back to the office fine, but not with the low wages they have here. Not to mention the poor and expensive public transport.

Unless of course it’s necessary to go into the office, I just don’t see there’s any good reason to be pushing everyone back like this.

Thankfully I’m allowed to WFH. I try to go into the office once a month. Most of my team work in various other offices though so I don’t see any of them when I do go into the office unless I go to the main London office where I usually see a few. I can only hope if I do need to work in the office again I’ll be driving by then because the trains are just abysmal and really put me in a bad mood.

It does make me wonder if some of it is about those at the top wanting money for renting their office properties.

I work for the MOJ, we are in 4 days in my area, 3 in others, they are trying to push for 5 days but we physically don't have enough desks for everyone to be in.
We had a training event in the afternoon recently and people had to share desks in the morning and sit in the kitchen because there wasn't enough space. Employers can't have it both ways , they save money on premises fine but you need to let us work from home a bit.

I have seen a lot of posts of people stating employers are pushing for being back in the office, this is not my experience at all, quite the opposite. Not just within my own employment but those around me aswell.

I personally would not be happy with this and if my employer was forcing back to the office, I would definitely be looking for another job, hybrid or fully remote.

I do suppose it depends on your contract, our contracts were updated to include working from home and it seems to work perfectly for those who choose the hybrid working.

Again from my own experience, employers who are forcing employees into the office when working from home can be an option are losing out on a lot of talent.

I'm hoping your unions are picking up on this?

Yes they are, but the unions argued against the reduction in space in the first place. Before covid we never worked from home, but we all had our own desk and a set of drawers under it, now it's hot desking with a locker. I'm in a senior management role and don't even get an office/desk. The nature of our work actually lends itself to being in an office, if not for the face to face contact with offenders/agencies/sentencers/court attendance then for the peer support with some of the horrific things we see, but companies who want that have to provide the facilities and should financially compensate (it's the public sector I realise the latter is a pipe dream).

My experience in a big organisation was that they simply didn't seem to appreciate the benefits that taking the time for managers to do proper line management meant for both the employees and the business.

Instead they spoke guff about self managing teams and building up pockets of expertise ergo no development or promotion opportunities beyond current team and did not give line managers sufficient time to do their job. Therefore easier to have people in so someone- who though- could keep an eye on them.

I now manage a team at a charity, it is perhaps too far the other way with weekly 121s and monthly development forms, but the plus side is although we all mostly work remotely, it's very easy for me to see who is delivering and who isn't, and yes I do expect people to take breaks for the occasional mumsnet post or hanging up a load of laundry.

To me it's not about where the person works, it's about productivity. I do expect people in from time to time and I have told a new start she needs to be in at least once a week, but effective line management should address most location concerns.

It all seems to be vibes based. I haven't found any good recent data on it at all.

When ONS used to look at this, they found there'd been no real change once things settled down after restrictions ended. Obv there were big drops and increases in 2020-1 in line with legislation. But the most recent analysis from them is from 2023.

But if they manage to do their job in-between "the many family tasks" then surely it's not a problem, is it? Of course, it could be that they are not working to capacity, but an experienced manager can definitely determine that. I know that my own employees don't work around the clock when at home, and I expect them to be available during core hours (that's why they've gotten cell phones), but it doesn't bother me as long as the work is done properly. There have been some "piss takers", but we've dealt with it in the proper way and they no longer work for us.

Of course, it could be that this amount of flexibility works better in a work environment that is project-based (like mine) because the deadlines are fixed and everyone knows what they have to achieve by then (and to what standard). I do tend to monitor new hires a bit more for the first year or so, but it's mostly to help them learn.

We were allowed to WFH during COVID and that went on for two full years. During the third year we were "encouraged" to go back into the office at least one day a week but that has now been changed to a compulsory three days a week (most only work a four day week anyway).
All to no purpose as we do not meet customers or contractors and need no direct interaction with our colleagues (when we had to go in once a week it was not uncommon to find you were completely alone).
It seems it is just to make use of the new office accommodation which was leased just prior to COVID.

Saw the way the wind was blowing and left.
Was content to commute when we knew nothing else but WFH was proved to be a success and it was just management wanting to wrestle back some control and at my time of life I don't have time for that.

I think a lot of it comes down to the fact employers still think they pay for your time, when in reality, or at least in the profession I am in, they pay for my outcomes and what I actually deliver. If they want those outcomes in strict time slots, then they aren’t going to get them are they!

It feels like micromanagement because it is micromanagement. No organisation wants to micromanage and very few managers want to micromanage. Unfortunately some people’s behaviour require micromanaging. Because they take advantage of flexible and autonomous privilege. It means boundaries and red lines need to be established. Otherwise there isn’t anything you can do about the behaviour which is often a complete piss take.

All the posts about colleagues taking the piss and why aren’t managers doing anything about it. This is what management does. First action is make policy clear and unambiguous.

I completely agree.

Since September, the traffic has been so much worse than it normally is. I can only assume more people have returned to the office.

I think it would depend for me on how onerous the “request” to wfh on a day is. If it’s as simple as “Hi Boss, you know I’m traveling to x for three days next week so I’m planning to wfh the day after I get back as I’ll have done lots of travel time and need to do the write up. I’ll be next in the Monday after for our meeting. How does that sound?” I’d be ok with that as that’s just really communication about your schedule. If it’s some form that has to be send to HR a month in advance with three different signatures then I can see that that is far to onerous given all the flexibility you are giving in return on travelling and I’d be rather annoyed- what you can do about it however is difficult.

Definitely, and this is why I'd see what else is out there if I were you. They're trying to have it both ways. There's a mismatch now, and while you might be able to push back against the office requirements, that's only one part of the problem.

I agree. I'm way more productive at home, not because I took the piss in the office but because I struggle to concentrate when conversations are going on around me, I'm alone at home. My team are fully remote and incredibly productive, much more so than the pre covid office team. I think the mutual respect between management and team members helps. I'd never go back to working in an office now.

I note your contract doesn't say anything

I think if you took the job on the basis you gout work from home when you like other than for meetings then you can argue this is what you agreed to but if this only started happening after you joined then I don't think you can argue against them changing it back.

I bloody this doesn't happen to us. I have my own office so on work from work days I commute 1 hour each way just to sit at a different desk in a different building. I don't ever see anyone to talk to anyone all day. Our work has been quite flexible because of this, this thankfully, but I think I'd need to look for a new job if more office hours were required because I refuse to commute 2 hours a day just to go and sit at a different desk.

If you started work before covid/lockdown and the contractual expectation was that you were office based, then the company is within its rights to revert to contractual terms. It sounds as though the company is being open to hearing from people whose lives changed in the interim and may have a genuine need for some WFH flexibility, though?

At DH’s company several people avoided coming back when the company reverted to, first, hybrid and then a more ‘in the office unless management approved’ model. Turns out people who lived in the S of England had sold up and moved to Scotland (for example); and a few even chose to work overseas during lockdown and didn’t fancy coming back to the UK - one or two that refused to return had to be fired and reported to the local tax authorities as there are huge contractual, legal and tax implications of not working in the country where employment contract is issued and your company is based.

So I understand why they are taking this route - for many (like DHs company) there is a clear drop in productivity as some colleagues are just not as ‘available’ during the standard work day and others, like my DH, are expected to be available whenever those staff decide to log on - meaning that he can take calls from around the work 18-20hours a day. It’s been hugely stressful and impacted his mental health, so he is utterly relieved the company is reinforcing standard work hours and 4days/5 in the office now.

There’s been an assumption that people with young families have priority of needs and should be entitled to ‘teem and lade’ by dipping in and out of work to do stuff with their kids/school runs and then log on at night to catch up - often to submit urgent documents that needed actioning by the following morning… when people like my DH are trying to enjoy family time with spouses and older kids/teens who also have a right to expect protected time with their parent/partner. DH understands that a reversion to standard contractual hours/increased presence in the office may mean some colleagues have to start spending on childcare/nannies again and they complain about the increased costs when, in reality, the system as it’s operated recently has been saving them a cost that they’ve always had to shoulder (he did!).

So, yeah, appreciate that it make some people sad that they will have to start commuting into the office again, but having watched the physical and mental impact on my DH of the stress of managing remote employees in an already global business, I’m not terribly sympathetic.

I've not seen or heard of anywhere pushing for 5 days back in the office. I have seen employers clamping down for essentially no time in the office to 2-3 days a week back in the office. Other than site-specific work, I don't know anyone who has to go into the office 5 days a week and I know quite a spread of people from different industries and locations.

My company mandates set days we come in (3 days per week). They would love us all back full time but there isn't enough space for everyone!

I did DSE/workstation assessments before I retired. I can’t see how employers can discharge their legal responsibility to provide a safe and comfortable working environment with a hot desking situation.

I feel that's still too much to expect from both the employee and the manager.
If someone is competent and senior enough to be out with clients as a manager I would want and expect them to be able to manage their own diaries and it's fairly self evident after travelling that at least a day of wfh is to be expected if not encouraged.