Change in Working from Home procedure

[HappyKite2067]

I have a fairly flexible job, I’m expected to be on site for certain meetings and activities but for the past 2 years, outside of this I could work from home. We are now being encouraged to be onsite more and although we don’t have a WFH policy, the procedure has changed. We now can only WFH limited days and we have to seek permission to do so. It feels like my job, which was previously very flexible and suited me, has turned into quite a micro managed job. Am I being unreasonable to think this is something to be bothered about, and raise with HR? Or are most work places now starting to push staff back into the office?

@Monkeybutt1 if you live far from the office and don’t have a home working contract I would try to get one ASAP.

My company says 2 days a week in the office and are getting strict at monitoring and enforcing this. 2 days a week seems more generous than most which want 3.

@HappyKite2067 can you submit a flexible working request and have set wfh days assigned?

I do a HR/comms role and look after office attendance. At a population level I need to not have everyone wanting to be in the office on a Tuesday so perhaps that might be their approach?

Given the flexibility needed for the job. Why don't you just ask for permission to manage your work days flexibly? They may actually not want to process each request individually ! Try chatting to line manager

Is there a chance this new rule is being trotted out as a universal policy but there isn’t the expectation for someone at your level or type of role to follow it as strictly as some others? Have you definitely had to ask to wfh or have you just taken it upon yourself to do it as you believe it’s the right thing? I’m just wondering if you had the chat about you specifically whether anything would actually need to change as it sounds like you’re pretty much working in the spirit of what they’re asking anyway with already having times on site and out at meetings. Your wfh is in recompense for the travelling it feels like to me.

I would be having a conversation with my line manager about their expectations for managing WFH requests, so that neither party is wasting energy on micromanaging the process.

The problem is that some, perhaps many people take liberties when they wfh. You see in on Mumsnet - watching young children, school runs, laundry and prepping meals all when they are meant to be working, saying you make up the hours is obviously what people say but personal experience tells me not everyone does. You also don't get the cohesion in a work group if people aren't all in regularly

The best thing we can all do is vote with our feet - leave companies that insist on 5 day a week working.

Its pure presenteeism in most instances.

I do think its understandable for employers to want people in 3 days, but 5 is just being silly and wanting to control/micro manage staff and in some instances overwork/pressure them to a level of productivity that isn't sustainable for most people.

Completely agree it sucks, but you'll have to vote with your feet and find a contractually WFH/flex role. I do find it so disappointing. I spend nearly four hours a day commuting in order to get on the phone to Americans all day.

I have had the chat with line manager and sadly it is what they expect! It might be that I raise some of the points around the extra hours I do and how I think it’s fair if I manage my own calendar to choose when I WFH. My job isn’t even very admin heavy, we do a lot of creative stuff so it’s not like we need to be in to use certain software.

My profession is moving back into the office which I don't mind, unless I'm writing large, complicated, documents & then I need to be locked in my home office or I'll find too much to distract myself with. My big beef is micromanagement, I grind to a halt if I'm subject to it because I get resentful & petty. I was instructed in March that I must be logged on for 8.30, not my usual 9, as 8.30 is my contracted start time. I pointed out that my contracted finish time was 5pm, so was I to down tools at 5, as per my contract, rather than my usual 6 or 7pm, or sometimes past 10pm if we've had an emergency? I've been left well alone since.

I am on a WFH contract, I got stung in my last job and learned the hard way to get one.

I’m very similar! I said in a previous post, some weeks I am in 5 days a week, I just cannot abide pointless micromanaging and I’m feeling pretty petty right now! I think when you work above and beyond, when management then try and put you in a box it feels really frustrating.

My company, FTSE 100, is still remote working. 3 days a month is all that's required. They'd struggle to change as they sold off most premises and office now isn't big enough. But most others in my sector are 2-3 days a week, and some are pushing for 4 days a week. I reckon it's mainly companies still tied to expensive office leases for the long term trying to get some use from them so it's not a dead asset so to speak.

But it is annoying how many can change policy as wfh not explicitly stated in contracts. Yet they used it as a recruiting carrot!

I'm curious what you mean by the company 'referring back to it' in the context of saying flexible working is a pro they offer. If they've been going round openly saying that is how they do things, and particularly if they have been advertising their roles in that way (even if not reflected in the written contract), I wonder if you could make an argument. I also wonder how many colleagues are affected and if it might be better if several of you raise it. Ultimately, they are going to lose staff as people will leave.

You see in on Mumsnet - watching young children, school runs, laundry and prepping meals all when they are meant to be working

I think there are piss takers but most people i know do things like laundry or meal prep using a lunch break.

Eg pop a load in before lunch, hang it out (takes 10 mins) at lunch. Or chop some stuff into a slow cooker first thing and give it a stir 2 or 3 times a day when getting a drink.

My issue is that my working hours (contracted) end at 3 some days. On those days, a school run at 3.20 is nothing to do with my employer! However, if I'm made to go into the office those days, the hour long commute into london means I can't make it for pick up. So then I'm out of pocket £30 for the train, plus another £30 for 2 kids wraparound. At £60 a day, the monthly cost of being in the office 4 days a week is £1,000 out of post tax pay. You need to earn approaching £25,000 more p.a if you are a higher rate taxpayer (as many on london wages are).

Employers underestimate the premium they will have to pay to attract people back, especially in london where lack of housing supply/cost means people tend to live further from work. Its not just the money either. I know many many women with children who are only working 4/5 days a week because they can do some of those days at home, if pushed to full time in the office they'll ask to reduce their hours. Basically few want their children in childcare for full time office hours AND 2 hours of commute time on top.

What happens when you are working extra hours and weekends etc, do you get that time off in lieu? If not, start charging.

Also, have you asked them if there is going to be any financial compensation for the change to flexible working as it was one of the things that drew you to/kept you in the job?

They'll probably say no to that, and you don't need to dispute it necessarily, but just by raising the issue and that you feel like they've lowered your average salary with extra (needless) commuting time gives you the chance to point out that they have disappointed you and made the job less valuable in your eyes.

I'd be looking for a new job that had wfh 2 or 3 days a week

As.of Sept 1st were back in the office full.time despite there being no need some days (usually Friday when there's no meetings) but similar companies are 1-2 hours commute for me so it is easier to go into the office everyday with 20/25 min commute and wangle these odd day WFH when I can

There's loads of different teams doing different things with different rules despite it being a blanket policy and I think it was gradually (and unofficially) slide back to being able to WFH.some days. Your company might go The same way

Yes, get an new job and when you do, don't be embarrassed to make it clear why you left

@YourLastNerve yeah when I'm WFH I spend less time hanging the washing up thAn I do queuing for a coffee in the office or chatting to someone I haven't seen for a while.
So many people I know use their commute time to work so the company gets more hours out of them which you don't get in the office.

What were you employed on? My contract is hybrid, the day in the office could be a day elsewhere so I could go and work in an office somewhere else if I wanted.

I got absolutely nothing done last time I was in the office though, so it feels so pointless and frustrating.

Where I work new starters work from the office full time for a minimum of 6m. No matter the level. It helps learn about the job the clients etc.

I had similar once at a previous job. I'd spent weeks staying until 10pm in the office, by myself, to get something important done. And then they tell me off because my login details show I didn't log into my office computer until 9:02 one day.
I apologised (somewhat sardonically), and always logged in by 9am from then on. But I also then always left at 17:30 on the dot.

I really didn't understand the mentality of looking at login details and seeing something like:
Day 1
Time in: 08:55
Time out: 22:30
Day 2
Time in: 09:02
Time out: 22:00
And thinking "well that 2 minutes past 9 login is absolutely unacceptable."

Where I work we are encouraged to come in a few times per week, but all of our meetings are still online! If you come in, you sit in the miserable office on teams, there’s no benefit. Anyone else in the same position? We are protected by the fact that we grew massively and don’t have enough room in the office.

@YourLastNerve spot on.

The sooner employers realise the cost of replacing everyone who leaves and give that flexibility back the better.

A small amount of piss takers has given wfh a bad press when it's simply not the case for most of us.
I was employed on the agreement on wfh and 'in for a reason', they're now saying 3 days in the office which means 2-3 hours commute a day so my options are leave or drop hours. School has limited wrap around, no childminders taking on, husband chronically ill (recent, unexpected and debilitating), no family close by and my job is difficult to recruit for, if I leave the team will be too short staffed so public services will be impacted hugely. It's so short sighted.

I know not everyone can, but I think vote with your feet and get a new job if possible. There are enough decent, modern employers out there in the world of office work.

Separately beware companies that use a return to office push as a redundancy excersise on the cheap, they know that some employees won't come back and can downsize without paying. Longer term this is bad for the company - they might lose some great staff and keep some terrible ones, but short term profit is a powerful motivator for poor managers.

My friend has been told she needs to be in the office 5 days a week with immediate effect. She is ok with it as no school drop offs any more, but it feels positively draconian if you need a little bit of flexibility.

I think it's fine for employers to ask people to come in 2-3 days per week, but every day seems a bit excessive even for pre covid times. Unfortunately I think some people took the mickey and productivity has gone down,hence companies putting in blanket policies.