To suspect vegetables are crucifying me?

[LittlePotOfCress]

From a family of IBS sufferers, mine has worsened in the past few years.
Always loved veg, eat it every day, and have generally aimed to consume the low fodmap variety to be on the safe side.
Had tests, no allergies, other issues, etc.
I did the FODMAP exclusion last year and had mixed results, although followed it to a tee.

Recently had another bad bout, lasting a few months so kept a food diary.
I observed the following within a day or 6 hours of eating
:
Potato, carrot, green beans with chicken breast - lots of uncomfortable gas.
Mixed low fodmap salad with tuna - less painful but still bloated later.
Cheese on toast - no symptoms.
50g of penne pasta with peppers and tomato - no symptoms.
Roast with root veg and stuffing - raging hell.
Homemade coleslaw with cabbage, carrot, radish and cress - fartsville.
Small Co-Op margherita pizza with olives, spinach and chilli peppers - no symptoms.

Cutting a long story short, I can conclude that I am safe with tomato, spinach and various peppers. I am safe with some wheat and lactose.
I simply can't eat other low fodmap veg without issue.
Most people I read about say gluten, dairy or high fodmap veg caused their issues but I seem to be an outlier. There is so little veg left that I can comfortable eat that I am a bit fed up. Is this even enough to get by on?

So much messaging about how veg can be consumed in great quantities but not for me. I feel a bit shortchanged.

Also check out Dr Will Bulsiewicz - his advice on going “low and slow” was one of the most helpful things I’ve found. Basic principle is your gut micro biome is most likely screwy, so once you’ve identified what you can eat safely you very very slowly reintroduce foods that are problematic - slow enough to begin building up the bacteria you need to be able to digest them properly and little enough so that they don’t cause issues along the way. Whilst it starts with an eliminiation diet, the end goal is to be able to eat a wide variety.

Time to chuck out all the ideas of what’s “good” or “bad” and what you “should” eat. Eat what works for your body. You seem to be tying yourself in knots trying to force yourself to be ok with certain foods because you should be able to tolerate them. Your body hasn’t read that book!

You’ve got loads of good information from elimination about what you can eat. Follow that.

This has been really helpful, thank for so much info.
I don't have toilet issues as such, just occasionally a bit slow. My main issues are discomfort and gas and bloating.

Will take this advice on board and agree with a pp who suggested a few days on the least harmful foods regardless of health impact.

Yes, I have recently seen my Dr.
Have tried eliminating spices and seasoning.
This has all worsened around meno, which is also mirrored in me not tolerating alcohol as easily too. Lots of stress, so the waters are a bit muddied.

I did 4 days this week of only root veg and sliced turkey, to test it out. I have been in the worst discomfort of all since doing so. You live and learn.

I suffer from SIBO flare ups OP. They are horrendous. I can barely move and I eat nothing. I'm not saying this is what you've got but if it is antibiotics work like a dream. For me, anyway.

@LittlePotOfCress I see you are flailing around looking for an instant answer. Food intolerances don’t quite work that way.

Please see my earlier post with a list if dietitians (including UK) with an interest in the subject and who can take you through organised elimination and introduction phases without loss of nutrient.

https://www.fedup.com.au/introduction/introduction-to-food-intolerance

Life is too short to eat foods that make you feel unwell.

I agree with PP that you need to try and "forget" what you know and eat the things that aren't causing you upset, bloating or pain. A good multi-vitamin can make up for a lot. It may not be ideal, but eating foods that cause you pain all the time isn't great either.

The diet you describe is the one, as I'm sure you'll know with your condition,you have to follow before a colonoscopy because the food is easy for your gut to digest and flush out during the prep. I was going to suggest that for OP - it's on NHS sites as the low fibre/low residue diet. Vegetables are on that list but I think the suggestion is that they are very well cooked and soft.

I know my Mum's IBS was really improved when she stopped following the advice at the time of high fibre. Turned out the AllBran she'd been forcing down for breakfast for a decade was doing no good at all!

When this happened to me I went paleo for a bit and my raging swollen belly had never been happier. I’m not paleo now but it did help identify dairy and soya as triggers (I was always gluten free). Gums like xanthan and guar also cause severe symptoms (unhelpful that so much gf food contains xanthan…). If you have a list of foods you know is safe, cut all else out and then reintroduce one by one every few days. Your diet will be dull for a couple of weeks while you build up but it may be enlightening. I personally can’t eat too much if any veg in one go so lots of things I can tolerate in small amounts alone but not in combination.

I can’t eat vegetables! Well very few and far between.

I eat carnivore - meat, eggs, butter and cheese. I do use herbs and spices that don’t flare me but vegetation and fibre are not my friend.

It’s been life changing to finally have a flat and silent tummy!!

I'm 52 and have had IBS since I was a teenager...but the triggers seem to evolve and change over time!

When I was young it was wholegrains, fruit, potato and even lettuce. Later in my 30's, nuts and green vegetables became problematic but potato became an easy safe food. These days, it's mostly vegetables and weirdly, yoghurt. Yet I can eat plenty of fruit (as long as it isn't over ripe) without difficulty.

So now I avoid all onion, leeks, garlic and only eat broccoli and similar leafy green veg in small quantities. I love fruit and Greek yoghurt for breakfast but have to limit myself to one small spoonful of yoghurt! On a bad day I can feel my sigmoid colon burning and I'll be in and out of the bathroom all day. Thank God I work from home - if we go away or I have to go somewhere for work, I avoid breakfast and hot drinks and take preventative immodium. I don't feel safe to eat unless I 100% know I'll have access to a toilet.

Stupid isn't it - like a PP said, my DH gets up and does his regular poo first thing and he's done. He finds my unpredictable bowels bizarre.

@TheSandgroper If I recall, I 'thanked' your post and made note of it. I made an AIBU because, to date, I am a bit fed up, and since veg is often touted as the cure all food, I wanted a moan. 'Flailing around' is a bit harsh frankly. I have followed my docs advice and am doing my best.

That said, it is true that there is so much conflicting info online. So many people seem to be convinced it is gluten or dairy, which I have never in my life suspected. To cut all of that out would leave me with almost nothing. And to be honest, if so many of us are sensitive to almost every foodstuff going, I would wonder why, culturally, and what the fuck is going on.

You've mentioned stress a few times and clearly this digestion issue is just adding to it.

I'd just park it for a bit. Be kind to yourself, don't try and find a resolution at the moment because as you can see from all the comments you'll be going around in ever decreasing circles with all the different advice. People have very strong views about diet and don't hold back on offering advice that suits them but certainly doesn't suit everyone.

I think your most unnecessary worry, for the time being, is about getting enough nutrition. Take a good multivitamin and mineral, then eat only things that you know you can tolerate. If that's just ice cream or something, it's fine, in the short term that isn't going to hurt you - although it might be boring! I very seriously doubt you'll get malnutrition.

Why not spend a few months focussing on reducing your stress (and for goodness sake don't google that or ask Mumsnet)? Get out of this vicious circle and then tackle it again with a fresh mind when you feel ready.

Thank you for this, I think I agree, the internet is not a good place for this right now. So many exclusions and claims to remedies for so many things. We do seem to have become a very food obsessed, confused culture generally. I can see how close this might propel someone towards orthorexia.

Good advice.

In reality is fairly simple though, don't eat foods that make you poorly.

I don't think the advice to avoid things that trigger it is wise, it goes against the latest research which suggest it's a reduced gut biome which causes IBS. You need to slowly introduce very small amounts of things, alongside a very high prebiotic and probiotic diet. Restricting will only make more and more things undigestible over time.

What I learned from doing the FODMAP diet is the cumulative effect. I love chickpeas and can tolerate a small handful but only once every 4 to 5 days. If I eat a handful on day 1 then again on day 2 I’m in agony. Perhaps this could be an issue for you?

Onion and garlic are killers for me. I can have very small quantities once or twice a week, but eating out or takeaway can be tricky.
Eat really simply for a while, avoid sauces and stuffing etc, it should help bit maybe very boring.

It’s so funny to see this here because I was googling it earlier.

I’ve been in an IBS flare for a while now and I’m so fed up. The other day I was curled up in a ball for hours, groaning because my stomach hurt so much. I’d taken several buscopan over the course of the day but it didn’t help.

I like vegetables and I like to eat healthily, but the more healthily I eat the more I suffer. I’ve tried low fodmap, probiotics and supplements but I seem to react to everything no matter what. I’ve got kefir on the go at the moment but it’s not making any difference. The only times I have an ok BM are if I’ve eaten junk.

I didn’t eat any vegetables yesterday or the day before because of the stomach pain. Yesterday I had the first ok BM for a long time. I was shocked.

I don’t know what to do anymore. We’re constantly bombarded with information on how important it is to eat a high fibre diet to reduce our risk of bowel cancer, but what are you supposed to do if your body can’t manage that? I find it really unhelpful when people say ‘oh it’s your microbiome’ or ‘you must have gluten sensitivity’ as if we haven’t tried all these things.

Stress, migraines, sometimes being pre-menstrual.

Had a bad few weeks recently, I was so sick of the safe foods I normally eat, just didn't want to eat at all. Potato, carrot, chicken, tuna, egg are the main things I can eat, but I ended up fixated on wanting curry.

Try the Atkins diet. I did this, as well as acupuncture, and it cured my IBS completely. It took a while but worked in the end. I didn't eat an apple for about 6 years but can now eat them happily. The only fruit I could eat was bananas and fresh dates. Also drink only hot drinks and try miso soup instead of coffee. Also honey bush tea is very soothing for the stomach. Totally agree about the veg - so frustrating! I couldn't eat anything raw for months - it was grim.

And, when you get very specific advice on exactly what you should be eating or taking, etc, ask for a link to the the peer reviewed evidence from a scientist working for a reputable organisation.

Get out of the echo chambers and relax.

Vegetables are trying to crucify you? Surely only brocolli and cauliflower...

I'm glad you saved me from making a cruciferous vegetables joke, @taylorswift1989 !

OP I did the low FODMAP diet. My issue is with beans and too garlic or onion. I take a bean assist enzyme before any meal with those ingredients and it's completely resolved my IBS. You sound like you have a problem with a greater number of foods but the enzyme could increase the number of foods you can eat comfortably.

www.dolphinfitness.co.uk/en/enzymedica-beanassist-30-capsules/165813

Have you tried taking Symprove op?
It has great results for some people.

Garlic and other alliums are well known for causing IBS symptoms. It may be that the other veg is combined with onions etc and the alliums are the culprits. Also it depends how things are cooked sometimes.