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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder how on earth they will sentence a 96 year old?!

496 replies

dreamer24 · 28/09/2024 22:52

news.sky.com/story/woman-96-admits-causing-death-of-pedestrian-after-she-panicked-and-mounted-the-kerb-13204265

A 96 year old woman killed a woman in her 70s after she lost control of her car. Due to be sentenced on Monday, apparently. It's obviously completely tragic that a woman has died, but I can't imagine a woman who is almost 100 will get a custodial sentence?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Mulhollandmagoo · 29/09/2024 09:01

BourbonsAreOverated · 28/09/2024 23:16

I think everyone should have to retake their test every 10 years.

I agree! As others have said, there are poor drivers in every age group

NeedToChangeName · 29/09/2024 09:02

HoppingPavlova · 29/09/2024 02:41

People need to retake tests after a certain age in order to keep driving

This is the case where I am in Australia. Can’t speak for all of Australia as driving requirements are not Federal but State based so it may not be the case in all States.

We get an eye test every time we need to renew license, 1,2 or 3 years (some people only have $ to pay for a year at a time) as standard. Then if you have been driving for a certain number of years and have not lost any points you can get a 5 year license (if you can pay for it) but you need to be under 50 for that. Even with a ‘clean’ record over 50 it’s 3 years at most.

Once people become elderly, forget the exact age (as I’m obviously not there yet🤣), then they need a doctor’s letter and test to retain their license. As you get older the frequency of this decreases to yearly. I seem to recall they need to foot the cost of this test as well, but I could be wrong about that bit.

This all sounds v sensible. I've never understood why uk doesn't have similar

CassandraWebb · 29/09/2024 09:02

Somanypiessolittletime · 29/09/2024 07:51

"The old are hated on MN
Whatever the topic, there will be an old person who spoils it/won't pay for it//thinks they own it/are 'spending my inheritance'"
Interesting. What I see is ridiculous claims of "agism" when people don't agree the elderly are entitled to more than everyone else.
And putting the independence of someone over the safety of everyone is a perfect example.
I don't agree there should be a blanket ban on elderly but of course they should have to retest.

Agreed.

I dont feel "discriminated against" because I have to have a medical licence - which means reapplying and medical tests every 3 years- because of my disability.

dreamer24 · 29/09/2024 09:03

It’s not ageism to acknowledge that agility, reflexes, decision making all slow down as you get older.

Agreed

OP posts:
JustKeepSwimmingJust · 29/09/2024 09:07

unsync · 29/09/2024 08:54

Agree, so much ageism here. There's a lot of really bitter, resentful posters.

Is the ageism that an adult who believes they are capable of driving and then kills innocent bystanders shouldn’t face appropriate punishment for that appalling lack of judgement?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 29/09/2024 09:08

Bunny44 · 28/09/2024 23:27

When my grandma was in her 90s we decided she shouldn't be driving (bad sight, poor reaction times, arthritis making it difficult to control the car). I knew someone who was killed by an elderly driver. A new mum in fact so we discussed it a lot as a family. But we found actually there's very little you can do. We tried telling her, she ignored us, my mum phoned her doctor who said he couldn't discuss it with us, my uncle disconnected her car, she called the mechanic... we found there weren't any avenues to pursue so not sure you can blame those around them so much as the rules need to be more stringent.

Agreed. This is a very difficult issue. My parents moved from a city to a village on an island when they retired. They told me that they'd thought it all through. If Dad ever had to give up driving (Mum didn't drive) they'd be fine because everything was in walking distance. What they hadn't thought about, and in my 30s I didn't foresee either, was that walking distance for a 65yo is not walking distance for most over 80s. They both saw a decline in their mobility as they moved into their 80s and became heavily dependent on Dad driving. He was a very good driver, but his eyesight was starting to deteriorate too. Then he had a mini-stroke and automatically lost his licence for six months. His health was failing generally by this time (he was 88/9) and he was becoming very frail. The psychological effect of losing his independence was considerable. They have a very good community around them and lots of people offered lifts, but all spontaneity was gone.

To my horror, he was adamant that he was going to drive again as soon as he got the all clear, and both the GP and the optician said he was fine, so he did. DVLA just rubber stamps the forms. He only drove very locally, but the difference it made to his mood and to my parents' quality of life to have that freedom and independence back was enormous. None of that would have mattered in the slightest if he'd had an accident and someone else had been injured or killed, obviously, but now that we have so many people living into extreme old age we really do have to think as a society how we support them and make it possible for them to retain their independence in a world built for people with cars.

Sadly, his health then took another big downturn and he died last year, so we never had to tackle the issue of when he would give up the car. Way back when he was 65 he'd talked quite nonchalantly about that as something that might happen in the distant future. It was quite different when it came to facing what that would mean in practical terms.

AgnesX · 29/09/2024 09:08

80sballetgirl · 28/09/2024 23:01

I did jury service & the defendant (found guilty) was 90 - he got a custodial sentence.

In the UK? What did he do?

CassandraWebb · 29/09/2024 09:09

sarsaparillatree · 29/09/2024 01:12

So eight years after you retire you are stuck with zero transport if you live rurally? Unless you can afford a taxi - for instance it would cost me £10 for the two mile journey to the nearest shop each way. https://www.dorsetcouncil.gov.uk/documents/35024/284111/PDC+taxi+tariff+and+fares.pdf/cfddcfa8-470f-9458-3d27-8dc9d1fb6f12
Let's fill the roads with elderly cyclists and horse riders, eh? I'd like to have a go at driving a gig! Or I could drive a mobility scooter at 4mph along the A-road (no pavements) where I live perhaps?
I agree that the checks for competence as you age should be stricter, but an outright age limit would be unworkable.

nb.

Planning where we live as we get older is important though.

Just because we don't have a blanket ban doesn't mean you will necessarily be able to drive in old age. I have a condition that can develop in a lot of people at around retirement age. If it affects their vision they can absolutely lose the ability to drive/lose their licence (the sensible ones stop driving before their licence is pulled). Those who are well set up with other options find it far less devastating.

It's not reasonable to insist on driving when physically not safe to drive just because you don't have other options

YesIamahippie81 · 29/09/2024 09:11

My mother is in her late 70s and is a perfectly good driver but she never drives on the motorway, dual carriages or large distances. She feels that is beyond her ability. If anything comes up that requires that she uses her buss pass, the train, taxi, us etc. She knows her limits despite being fit, healthy and completely mentally aware. The problem is those who don't acknowledge their frailties and limits. Testing would alleviate this...nothing to do with ageism and everything to do with science and facts!
Insurance is much higher as a young or new driver but not as an older driver despite the concerns that failing reflexes etc adds. Maybe that is also something to consider? A test by the insuring company rather than dvla may help?

GoldLameDarling · 29/09/2024 09:12

Does anyone know what age people need to retake their test?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 29/09/2024 09:12

GoldLameDarling · 29/09/2024 09:12

Does anyone know what age people need to retake their test?

I don't think that happens at all in the UK, does it?

mm81736 · 29/09/2024 09:13

JustKeepSwimmingJust · 29/09/2024 09:07

Is the ageism that an adult who believes they are capable of driving and then kills innocent bystanders shouldn’t face appropriate punishment for that appalling lack of judgement?

People cause accidents every day through lack of judgment.It would be interesting to see how the insurance premium of a nonagenarian compares to that of a teenager, to see how risk actually does compare.

Needanewname42 · 29/09/2024 09:16

GoldLameDarling · 29/09/2024 09:12

Does anyone know what age people need to retake their test?

You don't ever need to unless requested by court usually part of a conviction for bad driving and ban.

People with some health conditions Diabetes etc and people over 75? Have to reapply for their licence every 3 years but it's a tick box paperwork exercise.

GoldLameDarling · 29/09/2024 09:16

Ah apparently you must renew it every 3 years after you are 70 and declare you are fit and have good eyesight. I wonder if everyone even knows that.....?

CassandraWebb · 29/09/2024 09:18

Needanewname42 · 29/09/2024 09:16

You don't ever need to unless requested by court usually part of a conviction for bad driving and ban.

People with some health conditions Diabetes etc and people over 75? Have to reapply for their licence every 3 years but it's a tick box paperwork exercise.

The medical exemption isn't tick box paperwork.
I have to go for a special eye test at an approved centre and send in the results

Lasttraintolondon · 29/09/2024 09:18

It's not age discrimination to expect some sort of fitness to drive as you age. I note the huge backlogs at test centres to right now there's nothing to be done.

Longer term wouldn't it be lovely if there was some sort of structured thinking on how we issue and renew licenses? Anything else that I do in my life that requires certification needs continual renewal/ongoing commitment, yet the driving test I passed decades ago is a one and done event.

Tryingtryinghoping · 29/09/2024 09:20

ObieJoyful · 28/09/2024 22:59

She carried on driving when she must’ve known her reflexes were slower than necessary. Because of that, another family has been robbed of a loved one.

Age doesn’t make you less guilty of a crime, if you’ve ignored that it makes you less capable in the first place.

Exactly. She should still get a custodial sentence even just a short one

JustKeepSwimmingJust · 29/09/2024 09:20

mm81736 · 29/09/2024 09:13

People cause accidents every day through lack of judgment.It would be interesting to see how the insurance premium of a nonagenarian compares to that of a teenager, to see how risk actually does compare.

And there are consequences, including prison sentences. If you are having a day when judgement is a bit shaky it’s a good idea to not get into a 1-2 ton vehicle and take it past innocent bystanders. It is in fact a legal responsibility

I’ve had flu and therefore not driven until my mental abilities returned to be safe on the roads. If I’d driven and caused death as a result I would deserve prison.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 29/09/2024 09:20

countrygirl99 · 29/09/2024 08:45

Selling a car frees up a lot of money to pay for taxis. There are also community transport schemes in most areas. All of which FIL refused to consider until he wrote of his car when he drove straight into a roundabout with no other vehicles present because he was worried one might appear and come onto the roundabout. We'd previously reported him to DVLA but he didn't have a condition that ticked a must stop driving box so was allowed to continue. It was just hos ability to judge speed and distance etc was shot.

Where my Mum lives there are taxis, but they're horrendously expensive and not always available either. Some of the taxi drivers are doing this around other jobs and there just aren't enough of them for the demand. There are volunteer driver schemes where you pay a small monthly fee to the organisation co-ordinating them and you can then request a lift for medical appointments. That's all my Mum uses the service for. Not sure if you could ask for lifts for any other reason. There is a Dial-a-Bus too, which we haven't investigated. All very different from London, where I live, where you can get a taxi at any time of the day or night.

dreamer24 · 29/09/2024 09:22

Just for the sake of clarity - I'm not saying I don't think she deserves a custodial sentence. I'm saying, I wonder how the courts will deal with her given her age, and whether they'd deem it appropriate or reasonable to pass a custodial sentence. The fact I'm posing that question doesn't mean I think they shouldn't.

OP posts:
CassandraWebb · 29/09/2024 09:22

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 29/09/2024 09:20

Where my Mum lives there are taxis, but they're horrendously expensive and not always available either. Some of the taxi drivers are doing this around other jobs and there just aren't enough of them for the demand. There are volunteer driver schemes where you pay a small monthly fee to the organisation co-ordinating them and you can then request a lift for medical appointments. That's all my Mum uses the service for. Not sure if you could ask for lifts for any other reason. There is a Dial-a-Bus too, which we haven't investigated. All very different from London, where I live, where you can get a taxi at any time of the day or night.

This is why it makes a lot of sense for people to think carefully about where they live as they get older

(And in general tbh, any one of us could develop a condition that means we cannot drive either temporarily or permanently)

CassandraWebb · 29/09/2024 09:23

dreamer24 · 29/09/2024 09:22

Just for the sake of clarity - I'm not saying I don't think she deserves a custodial sentence. I'm saying, I wonder how the courts will deal with her given her age, and whether they'd deem it appropriate or reasonable to pass a custodial sentence. The fact I'm posing that question doesn't mean I think they shouldn't.

There are sentencing guidelines for judges and whatever the crime, and whoever the person, the judge has to consider mitigating circumstances

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 29/09/2024 09:23

GoldLameDarling · 29/09/2024 09:16

Ah apparently you must renew it every 3 years after you are 70 and declare you are fit and have good eyesight. I wonder if everyone even knows that.....?

I am not a driver, so I don't know, but surely the DVLA knows the dates of birth of everyone with a licence and will send out automated letters with the declaration? It may give some people pause, I suppose.

Judellie · 29/09/2024 09:25

This is why all pensioners should get free public transport - it's a lot safer for everyone. (I do know there's scaremongering that the labour government will remove it but it is just scaremongering)

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