To think that most people aren’t genuinely nice?

[DreamyPearlPeer]

I often find myself questioning the true nature of people’s kindness. It seems that many acts of kindness are motivated by self-interest or social expectations rather than genuine goodwill. AIBU to think feel that, in general, most people aren’t as nice as they seem?

This is the sort of thing we’d argue about in the Sixth Form Common Room in a free period, and think ourselves wise cynics who have seen through the tissue-like façade of civilisation to the petty selfishness of humanity.

God, we were unbearable.

At least it made it easier to put up with when my own went through that phase.

People are complicated social animals. @AllTheChaos summarised it nicely.

You can balance what they do with why, but what is a lot more important. “Looking like a hero on Facebook” might not be a motivator for you, but it doesn’t make all the money raised for charity stop being useful, nor does it undermine the publicity the charity gets.

There are people who think I am among the nicest and kindest people they’ve met. They have met me in relation to the things I am interested in helping with and giving loads of my energy and focus.
There are people who think I’m a stone cold bitch.
Both are right.

Look up Kohlberg's stages of moral development. He says the majority of people don't progress past stage 4, law and order morality

“Life is pain, highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something.”

• Dread Pirate Westley Roberts

I think we fail to recognise all the tiny acts of kindness people do every day and only focus on the flashier ones.

Driving a relative to the shops, stopping to help a loose lamb, picking up a lost glove, and so on. Sometimes there are alternative reasons but often people are just doing these because they help someone or something else.

That's where true kindness lives. In the mundane and thankless small acts. Not in the big cheques to charity etc.

People gain personally from niceness, even if that is simply feeling good about being nice. That's a win-win which is probably the best we can get and that's fine.
The recipient of the nice thing/words/act feels good and the giver of the nice thing/words/act feels good.

As to the true nature of people, look no further than the very thing we're on right now. The internet. How people behave when anonymous tells you far more about them than how they behave when they are seen and known ever could.

I agree with @parietal ’s distinction between niceness and fairness, OP.

When I am nice to someone, that’s my own choice, freely given. I do this with family, friends, neighbours, colleagues and strangers.

Beyond this, in my network of relationships I am looking for a sense of fairness. There is an overlap between the two concepts.

In HE, you may put out a call for someone to take a lecture in 2 days because you are ill. I know I have a conference in 3 months. I take your lecture, and I know your timetable is generally free for one of the lectures I’ll need cover for.

If closer to the time you make vague excuses I won’t be thrilled. If this is what you see as ‘leverage’, I would characterise it differently.

If we were close, no one else was stepping in and you were in danger of redundancy owing to health challenges, that would change the flavour. If you had a reputation for being too busy for reciprocity I wouldn’t have offered in the first place.

I also realise that your idea of leverage could be entirely different.

That’s lovely

I grew up in a pretty toxic household so I’m am constantly surprised by how kind and patient people are in general. Even people I know as being bad tempered have been forthcoming with practical help.
There once was two drunk/drugged up people who lived next door and they started drinking and swearing on their porch on a Tuesday afternoon in the middle of a play date I was hosting at my place. I went round and politely explained the situation and they moved indoors without any argument. People are nice 😊

This! If we scrutiny our motivations we can always find some selfishness involved. Some people find pleasure in helping others so surely they are selfish as well:). My MIL who is the most kindhearted generous person I have ever met always says she's buying us gifts out of pure selfishness because it's such a pleasure to her:).

I think what it comes down to is this: am I making someone's day a little better/easier/brighter? Then it's all good and if it makes us feel good about ourselves surely that's a win-win situation.

You’ve misunderstood. If my statement were about myself, I would have made that clear. As I mentioned on the first page of this thread, my observation is based on what I’ve experienced and seen from others, not a reflection of my own actions. Sometimes it’s not that deep - just an observation rather than a need for armchair psychology.

I used to go to church and I called it “performance niceness” - generous if someone was watching but when they thought no one could see they were not.

I got really pissed off with Christianity some decades ago. Since then I have known two incredibly kind, charitable, self-sacrificing women, probably the two kindest and most generous people that I know, both of them regular churchgoers, and neither of whom rams it down your throat.

I'm back to being an irregular church-goer again, due in large part to their example.

Most people are fairly decent, however not all the time,in the same way with absolutely everyone. Those people that are , are an extreme and just as unhealthy as the ones that are complete arseholes all the time. However, the people around them benefit from the kindness/niceness so don't see it as an issue.

It seems that many acts of kindness are motivated by self-interest or social expectations rather than genuine goodwill.

I think that people who are nice just because , are at risk of being used or treated as a doormat because it becomes expected.

I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with being kind because of social expectations. For example I am happy to hold the door for you in the hope that someone will do the same for me when I need help. I will look after your child at short notice but if I need help and call you, then I’d hope that you’d do the same.

There’s a Friends episode about there being no such thing as a selfless good deed and I agree.

As long as the person acts decent and isn’t two faced I wouldn’t waste time worrying about pure motives and thought crimes.

I think most people are decent. Society would be anarchy otherwise and there'd be no chance of law and order, so this applies throughout the world where people generally cooperate with the society that they're in. There are few lawless places where everyone is out for themselves relative to the scale of human population and tends to be localised to local sub-cultures.

I'm not too fussed if altruism is not a totally genuine concept. Good acts aren't negated because someone gets a glow of satisfaction out of doing something beneficial to others. TBH I'd rather send my children off to Scouts etc being led by leaders who find fun and satifaction from going there than going purely out of duty of service to others. The enjoyment adds value to the service and enhances the experience of the participants.

Most children have the capacity to hold positive, productive values towards others. They generally have an instinct to want approval and to please others through positive acts. Some families are caught in negative spirals and children don't develop those positive traits, but it's rare for a child without trauma to ignore positive influences and be entirely self-serving throughout life.

It's survival to serve your own needs, but it's also survival to have additional capacity to support others and create mutual networks.

I've worked in prison for over ten years. The vast majority of prisoners I've interacted with have been nice people, in the sense that they would be pleasant, helpful and reasonable in most circumstances. Of course tempers run high sometimes, and some people are simply deeply unpleasant humans, but generally most people are nice enough.

A few years ago, I had a prisoner absolutely lose his shit with me, and he ranted at me for about 20 minutes, until I got him to go away. Another prisoner, who had witnessed the whole performance, popped out of his cell and offered me a cup of tea because he could see I was a bit shaken. Obviously I didn't accept, but he was kind at the time. He's doing a long sentence for an unpleasant crime, but in that moment, he showed basic kindness.

People gain personally from niceness, even if that is simply feeling good about being nice

I used to study yoga overseas with proper yoga teachers who lived the way of life. One thing they practise is not being horrible to anyone, or being horrible to themselves (do no harm) because they don’t want anything upsetting their practise and meditation.

A lot of people think I’m really nice and kind. I don’t think I am. In fact I’ve learnt that MY life is easier when I’m pleasant to people, smile and do small things for them. It takes way more energy to be in conflict and go about miserable, and like those yogis I just banged on about, quite frankly it takes up my time and energy which I want to conserve for me and mine.

There are a few people who try and draw me in to their dramas and games but I don’t engage with them because I like my household to be a nice zen space, like a spa 🧘‍♂️

So, yes, being nice can be a self preserving act.

I think it depends who you surround yourself with. In my working life I am in regular contact with community groups overwhelmingly run by volunteers and meet so many people have kindness and altruism running through them like a stick of rock. In my experience the vast majority of people are kind and decent.

My mother died last week. Everyone has been so lovely. Not just friends and family but people I have talked to at banks and such like.

I see no selfish motive for any of their kind words and simple support. They are all just good, decent people.

Apart from the funeral home..obviously they are just looking to fleece us in lovely way. But we both understand that.

Do no harm . Take no Shit . It’s a good way to live your life .

Yes, I think altruism or kindness have an evolutionary origin and are subconsciously motivated by a desire to build useful relationships (to help with survival) and/or to receive something in return (also to help with survival).

I think the opposite, I have very rarely met someone who is truly horrible. Most adults I know are nice people, and will do what they can for people within the limits of their capabilities and personal capacity.

Actually I believe most people are nice.

Depends on the person, kindness in itself doesn't always mean the person is nice. Remember, the devil is seductive.