Overriding next of kin rule

[AnotherAdventurePassed]

Hi, I'm not sure if this is in the right place but any advice is welcome.

Context: My DB is 24, an addict and is in and out of prison. We are both very LC with our mother, however his unfortunately isn't by choice and still IMO craves a relationship with her regardless of how that affects him. Mother is in the process of obtaining a restraining order against DB.
DB is currently in what I believe to be a hostel/supported living accommodation though I have not had the specifics confirmed. This was arranged upon release from his last prison stint. The worker for this place has been trying to contact my mother for the past couple of days, so they can arrange a meeting to discuss his needs and to put a care plan in place i assume.

Mother has basically avoided the calls until today when she begrudgingly returned the call and was quite rude to the worker saying she didn't want to play any part in this meeting and won't risk her position in life or chance of getting this RO by entertaining anything to do with him. As far as she is concerned she will pass her details on but she wants nothing to do with him.

I, personally, think this is disgusting and yet another show of how self absorbed she is. To be frank, she is the reason he has ultimately ended up down this path in the first place. As she is next of kin the accommodation won't entertain discussing DB with any other family member therefore I'm really worried he won't be able to have someone to advocate in getting him the support he needs (in reality he's needed something like this since he was a child).

My question is, is there a way to override this NOK requirement at all? If so how? Im worried that if it isn't possible for another family member to step in to help with this, our mother is basically going to screw him out of this support that may or may not be his only chance to get on the path to finally having an opportunity at a "normal" life.

Your DB just needs to tells them that they should regard you as his nok rather than your mother. That's all. There's no rule that says it has to be her. It's up to your brother to tell them to contact you though. And he may well not do so.

I probably should of added that due to the neglect in our childhood, I don't believe that DB actually has the ability to advocate for himself. Whilst he has some diagnosed MH issues, he has had underlying learning difficulties since a very young age that were ignored by mother to the point that now he is just being labelled as thick, dumb and stupid.

I don't belive next of kin is a legal status, more a nominated role. Your BD has put your mum as NOK, he could just as easily put you as his sister. Advise him to change it on the forms. He's got to choose tho.

You can't nominate yourself as NOK for him. (That could open up vulnerable people to a lot of risk). Contact him and talk to him about it. Who his NOK is comes from your brother.

He can nominate who he likes, NOK has no legal status.

Next of Kin actually has no legal status so if your brother wants you to be involved in his care / support then he simply needs to nominate you when asked for his Next of Kin rather than putting your mother’s details down. The only exception to this may be if he were to be detained under the Mental Health Act where your mother would be considered his ‘Nearest Relative’.

If it’s likely that your brother may face a further term of imprisonment or might be in a situation where he comes into contact with services and would benefit from you advocating for him it might be worth thinking about Lasting Power of Attorney. Whilst you cannot use your powers for Health and Welfare unless your brother lost capacity it makes clear in law that you are an important person in your brothers life and should be considered when these meetings take place.

I'm not sure about this situation but as far as the NHS are concerned this man's mother would be the legal next of kin and even if he stated his brother, they'd not override what they rightly or wrongly view as the legal nok.
It's a really difficult situation and if the authorities working with your brother don't view him as having capacity for some reason, they're going to expect to have your mother making decisions for him. I hope it gets resolved for all your sakes.

Maybe try to speak to his support worker, just to let them know you are there and want to help.

We aren't allowed to have direct contact with him until the meeting and care plan has been completed and right now they will only contact and specifically discuss his needs with my mother only. I'm unsure what will happen if she continues to refuse any involvement or contact to do with this.

It was like drawing blood from a stone when they called to get in touch with my mother these past few days to the point where myself and my grandmother had to verify and seek approval just for them to pass a message through us to my mother. They refused to provide any other details or answer questions as they specifically stated they could only speak with his next of kin, I.e my mother.

It's likely if they asked my DB if there was another person who could advocate for him that he would name myself or my DGP's but he would not voluntarily specify us unless they pushed.

You need to ask for a medical power of attorney. You can also your mum, if she wants to have nothing to do with him, if she would support you taking legal steps to have medical power of attorney. Especially if you think he is not capable of having this discussion himself.

There is no official NOK involved in these post-release situations. They simply contact the person that the ex-prisoner wants them to.

You need to talk to your brother.

The sad thing is that I don't think professionals actually understand his lack of capacity because he's never had proper investigations into things for diagnosis etc and my mother has led people to believe he is just thick and a waster. For example, he has had a speech impedance since he could talk, he used to stutter badly and was unable to pronounce words properly to the point where you couldn't even understand a sentence. She never got this looked at or even helped him, she'd even ignore referrals to SALT from schools. Whilst the stutter improved, still to this day unless you know his speech or really listen to him it's still hard to understand him. For years ive heard numerous people (including my mother) refer to him as "just a thicko who can't even talk properly".

He's ultimately now is just labelled difficult and a general waste of space rather than him being so neglected he can barely speak, read or write that people may think actually maybe his ability to advocate for himself is questionable to the point he needs good support.

This doesn't have anything to do with the prison though. He has been living on the streets for 3 years when he hasn't been in prison and it was agreed by police, probation etc, who exactly i do not know, that upon his release he would finally have accommodation so he could be safe and to hopefully reduce his risk of reoffending, aswell as other factors.

What would they do if he literally had no next of kin? Would they let your DB nominate someone else in that circumstance? If your mother genuinely wants nothing to do with your DB or his situation, then perhaps it will just take a letter from her stating she has/is in the process of obtaining a restraining order against him and will not have anything to do with him. Maybe that will then open the door for you to be the nominated next of kin.

Mother is in the process of obtaining a restraining order against DB.
What happened here? I suspect this is the reason she no longer wants him in her life.

Get your brother to nominate you as NoK. Get him to make you his financial and medical Power of Attorney.

If you're not allowed direct contact then could you contact the worker and explain your DM wants no involvement but you're happy to be involved if your DB would consider naming you as NOK instead? Surely it's in their interest to get this sorted.

The restraining order process was because he (wrongly) put a garden chair through her kitchen window. However the event of that sketchy. She goaded him, threatened him and got a male friend to come and "kick his head in" because she refused to give him his bank card to be able to travel to court. To be clear im just stating the facts there not making excuses.

The order to banish him from her life isn't a new or only reason she's now disowning him. She's has such contempt for both of us in her life since we were born. It's just another step to show she that and to make it all about her. Everyone should feel sorry for her and not her son.

I dont think there is a legal next of kin but be aware of your brother has mental health issues if he was ever detained under the the mental health act there is something called nearest relative ,and this has very strict guidelines ,that have to be followed , a nearest relative can be removed but only by going to court.

I can feel the hatred of your mother through your posts. I highly recommend you seek counselling for it as this could ruin your life.

Mothers are also human and just because they cannot love or even like their offspring doesn't make them monsters. You need to let all these emotions go. I'm sorry she couldn't be how you want her to be, but this doesn't necessarily make her at fault. Sometimes things just "are".

I hope you manage to get your brother to make you NoK. Then you can all hopefully live in peace going forward. Good luck.

I understand that the best avenue to go down is to contact the worker myself and just state all these concerns to see if its possible to get another family member to step in to be an advocate for him. I do need some more information on what they are looking for NOK involvement to be.

I'm not sure what exactly the logistics are and I just want to paint a clearer picture for him to get the right support and to hopefully give him the tools that set him onto the right path. However that process for family involvement would possibly need to be clear from their side too because there is some barriers that may prevent how intensive my responsibility can be for him.

If your DB has not given the authorities your details, how do you know all this?

Mothers are also human and just because they cannot love or even like their offspring doesn't make them monsters.

…. actually, yes it does.

What if their offspring turn out to be monsters? Many women suffer DV at the hands of their sons. Should they still be expected to love or like them?

@LittleGreenDragons Thank you for your input, I completely disagree with your view on mothers but you are entitled to your opinion. I have had years of therapy due to the abuse and the later life factors that my childhood caused so i do not need anymore. I do not hate my mother as that would be an emotion that ultimately gives her space in my head which she does not deserve.

But to say a mother, or any parent for that matter, who chose to birth children then neglect, abuse and openly detest them for years is "only human" and "not necessarily at fault" for steering said children's later life choice directions, is in my view a very warped statement. But again thank you for your response, I also hope I can help undamage my brother to a degree before it gets any worse.

Just to say I'm not sure this is true. My partner was in hospital a lot last year and put me down as his next of kin. Legally this is considered to be his parents (who had to deal with his will when he passed away), but the nhs were happy for it to be whoever he nominated.