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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Overriding next of kin rule

59 replies

AnotherAdventurePassed · 28/09/2024 16:29

Hi, I'm not sure if this is in the right place but any advice is welcome.

Context: My DB is 24, an addict and is in and out of prison. We are both very LC with our mother, however his unfortunately isn't by choice and still IMO craves a relationship with her regardless of how that affects him. Mother is in the process of obtaining a restraining order against DB.
DB is currently in what I believe to be a hostel/supported living accommodation though I have not had the specifics confirmed. This was arranged upon release from his last prison stint. The worker for this place has been trying to contact my mother for the past couple of days, so they can arrange a meeting to discuss his needs and to put a care plan in place i assume.

Mother has basically avoided the calls until today when she begrudgingly returned the call and was quite rude to the worker saying she didn't want to play any part in this meeting and won't risk her position in life or chance of getting this RO by entertaining anything to do with him. As far as she is concerned she will pass her details on but she wants nothing to do with him.

I, personally, think this is disgusting and yet another show of how self absorbed she is. To be frank, she is the reason he has ultimately ended up down this path in the first place. As she is next of kin the accommodation won't entertain discussing DB with any other family member therefore I'm really worried he won't be able to have someone to advocate in getting him the support he needs (in reality he's needed something like this since he was a child).

My question is, is there a way to override this NOK requirement at all? If so how? Im worried that if it isn't possible for another family member to step in to help with this, our mother is basically going to screw him out of this support that may or may not be his only chance to get on the path to finally having an opportunity at a "normal" life.

OP posts:
EatSleepDreamRepeat · 28/09/2024 21:19

AnotherAdventurePassed · 28/09/2024 20:42

I know his offending history over the last couple of years yes due to reading his letters for him. They consisted of mainly of multiple shoplifting and possession of drugs (heroine & cocaine) incidents most of which he was jailed or recieved a suspended sentence due to already being on licence, then 1 offence at the beginning of this year for criminal damage which was the incident where he smashed my mother's kitchen window when she refused to give him his bank card so he could attend court for a shoplifting offence, he was jailed for 8 weeks for this as he was also in breech of his licence conditions for not attending court that day. As stated earlier he has had multiple prison stints but none have lasted longer than 4 month at a time. This last release was for shoplifting on licence and was a 8 week sentence.

He hasn't had an address for over 3 years. He has primarily lived on the streets or at some dealers/druggys house in this whole time, which they know so its unlikely they will be looking for a residency address because there is and never was one.

He has no friends, no possessions and no where to go at all, as far as im aware he literally has nothing but the clothes on his back. I do know that during his recent prison time they were calling with concern because he had consistently started hallucinating, so a MH facility may be plausible come to think of it.

Sounds too short a sentence for an Approved Premises.

Another idea is to contact Adult Social Care in the area he is from/lived as an adult. Even if the place he is being cared for is in a neighbouring authority. His "ordinary" Local Authority will be paying for his care if it's social care and not medical.

The words I would suggest you use specifically are "someone from the accommodation has been trying to contact my mum and she doesn't want contact. I would like to support my brother. I am able to befriend him for any decisions under the Mental Capacity Act. I am able to support him with any Care Act assessments. Regardless if these aren't happening, I do want to support my brother but the accommodation won't speak to me. It seems they wrongly think NOK is a legal power when it isn't. Please can a duty social worker contact me to help me get back in touch so I can support my brother."

EatSleepDreamRepeat · 28/09/2024 21:20

I really hope you resolve this OP. You sound like a loving sister.

AnotherAdventurePassed · 30/09/2024 14:29

Update (for anyone interested): The meeting went ahead with my mother begrudgingly agreeing to attend via phone link. DB has actually been sectioned and is in a very bad way, which is what the urgency of the calls and meeting was about as they needed his history, medical info, etc.

What is the process with the Advocacy and support now? This isnt a situation I've had to deal with or research before so I'm pretty clueless but as far as im aware the only person allowed contact or updates/information is unfortunately my mother.

My mother has stated again that she will be continuing to pursue the restraining order and she will not entertain visits or contact etc but she does wish for workers to contact her with an update if he deteriorates. Shes also told my nan that she has far to much on to even deal with DB circumstances right now. Honestly I'm literally sickened by this and feel, now more than ever, is the time for me to step up and actually give him support and let him know the rest of us are there for him. How do i do this?.

OP posts:
EatSleepDreamRepeat · 30/09/2024 14:38

I am so sorry to hear your brother is so unwell. Your mum needs to write to the hospital. If you call the hospital and ask for the Mental Act Admin/Mental Health Law office email address that will be a good place to send it to.

Your brother can have an advocate as well as NR to help him understand his rights. The ward staff can arrange this.

I've posted a link with a bit more info for you/your mum.

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/legal-rights/nearest-relative/changing-my-nearest-relative/#:~:text=If%20your%20nearest%20relative%20doesn,to%20act%20in%20that%20role.

Cantalever · 30/09/2024 15:47

You sound a wonderful and much needed support for your DB. I hope you can get it resolved that he has you down as "emergency support" or next of kin, whichever is used.
It is so hard to get to where you are after the start you both had - total respect! Hope you can help your DB to have a happier life. Flowers

Theeyeballsinthesky · 30/09/2024 15:51

So sorry OP - what a difficult situation! Your brother may be entitled to an independent mental health advocate

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/advocacy/imhas-england/

ThePure · 30/09/2024 17:35

They will have contacted your mum because she is the Nearest Relative under the Mental Health Act. This is a specific legal role not the same as next of kin and confers powers to, for instance, release the person from their detention.

You cannot request to become nearest relative but your mum can delegate the power to you if you want to have it. She should contact the Mental Health Act administrator at the hospital where he is detained and ask to delegate the power to you. She just has to put it in writing.

In terms of more informally being involved in his care you could just call the ward and ask if he will speak to you and if he will give consent for you to talk to the nurses and Drs taking care of him. If he agrees there is no reason you can't be involved even if you are not NR.

ThePure · 30/09/2024 17:36

And yes he will have a right to an IMHA which the ward should automatically offer him

Plus free legal representation if he wishes to appeal his detention (only for that issue though)

WeeOrcadian · 30/09/2024 17:55

NRTFT

Your mother is a cunt, so is mine, I feel you

Surely your DB can 'allocate' or name someone else as his NOK - it isn't legally binding in the UK

Could you get a message to him via his support worker?

You may be best getting formal, legal advice for him, or him directly via his legal counsel. I'd also be pushing for a formal assessment of his capacity and ability to make decisions for himself.

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