Excluded from grandchildren's life

[GrandmDEA]

I'm going to try and keep this short but I have 3 sons, one of them moved abroad many years ago for work, it was meant to be short term but he fell in love with a girl 10 years his junior, married her 9 months later and they had a child a year after that. A couple of years ago this same country that they were living in and she was from ended up in a war, they moved to the UK with their 2 children immediately. They live in London, fairly central, they pay way below market rate in rent as someone he works with owns it but it is a tiny 2 bed and they have 2 children, one who has just turned 5 and the other just turned 3.
We have always had issues with them, we weren't invited to the wedding, in fact we didn't know they were married until after the wedding happened! We had never met her. She clearly has no respect for our family but we try to keep the peace.
This year we have seen our grandchildren 2 times, we only live an hour away but they don't let us visit, if we show up uninvited on the weekend, they are always busy. If we ask to go up to see them it is always "no the house is too small for guests". My sons is meant to bring them to see us once a month but most times he ends up coming alone with some excuse. We haven't seen his wife since Christmas!
Our son was meant to be bringing them to see us tomorrow, we have spent £100s on birthday gifts for them as they both had birthdays at the very end of August. Today he has messaged saying sorry we can't come the girls will be too tired after a week at school/nursery, we will see you during half term! This happens every time.
We have had some big fall outs over decisions they make such as his wife continues to take their tiny children to a war torn country to visit her family, putting them through 24 hours of travel to get there and back! My son never goes with her and I don't think he actually agrees with her but lets her do it anyway. It stresses me out when she takes them to there, I worry for their safety so I have voiced that I don't agree with it. We obviously also got off on the wrong foot with the lack of wedding invite to anyone in our family. We only mention things that concern us out of care but it is always taken as an insult.

AIBU to be really hurt they keep excluding us? The grandchildren have spent several weeks this year with their maternal family and they all live in a war torn country, but barely 2 half days with us who live much closer!

I'm sorry OP it sounds as though there have been faults on both sides. Your DS has to prioritise his wife and from things you have said in the past you will have upset them both and given the impression you disapprove of her and don't like her.

Even if you don't feel you should I would recommended contacting your son and giving a heartfelt apology, say you feel a distance you wish wasn't there and say you would love to be closer to his wife and children. Make sure you genuinely try to connect with his wife. Don't disparage her country. Ask them how you can see them all more (not just the grandkids) and leave the ball in their court.

@GrandmDEA I know that I wasn't the girlfriend, and ultimately wife, that my in-laws were hoping for for their son (for different reasons). But never once did they express that to me, and they were always welcoming and thoughtful when I visited. When we got engaged there was a tiny blip when an uncle showed disapproval, but we very swiftly got a letter from my MIL defending us and celebrating our commitment to each other and welcoming me to the family.

They were the best in laws anyone could hope for, and I loved them dearly, and I know they loved me. When my MIL died 40 years later, I grieved deeply.

Be more like my MIL.

Honestly OP I think the damage is done but if it was me I would wholeheartedly apologise to both your son & his wife for the upset & nasty comments & keep any future ones to yourself

Op, I wonder if you're being fully honest with our self about the situation. It seems really unlikely that you had an open, warm, supportive relationship and your ds suddenly didn't invite you to his wedding. I'm not suggesting you are solely at fault, only that there must have been something tricky in the relationship before that.

The reality is that these are their dc and your opinion about how they raise them is unwelcome, so stop giving it! It doesn't matter what you think about their trips overseas to see their extended family, it's a choice their parents get to make.

If you want to make and maintain a relationship, I think you'll have to do it under their terms. Can you post the birthday gifts? Can to send the dc a postcard once a week? We lived quite far from my dm when my dc were tiny and they loved to get a postcard from her. And you offer to drive to them and take the dc to a park for an hour with no expectation of coming into the house, if they were accepting of this (perhaps along with our ds until you've built a relationship)?

For whatever reason, it sounds like they don't feel supported by you, and if you want to improve the relationship I think you'll need to do more.

What has the fact they pay below market rent got to do with this and you..

Maybe your son doesn’t visit Ukraine with his wife and young children because it is so unsafe?

The UK Government Foreign Office advises against all travel to Ukraine. There is a high threat of missile and drone attacks in Kyiv.

Official stats point to 42 civilians being killed every day, including children.

Who would want to risk that, unless it was essential and life saving travel?

She was 20 when they met and 21 when they married.

So your 31 yo son married a 21 yo and you blame her for your son not making an effort with you and your husband?!?!

Your son is a grown man and if he really wanted to see you, his family, he would.

But yes you need to lean over backwards, beg forgiveness and ask for a new start, if you ever want a relationship with these grandchildren.

It’s up to you whether eating humble pie is something you’re prepared to do in return for this.

Well that is my point exactly, if he doesn't think it is safe for him how could it be safe for his small children.

What is it you would like OP? Do you have an interesting life with lots of hobbies, volunteering or work?

Op, the comments here are harsh. (My family is quite quick to offer opinions even though we are fairly quiet so I get it to a degree.) However, they aren't going to take your opinions on board so you must stop giving them if you want things to improve.

I can see why you are hurt thought, no invite before the bride has even met you, and then saying it's too tiring for the kids to have a mere visit, when they aren't too tired to go to Ukraine. It's obviously disingenuous on their part.

1. Only Send the gc a card on their birthdays. Reserve gifts (including money) for only when you see them. You need to be firm about this as this is exactly what her family in the Ukraine would do.
2. Don’t ask to see the gc any more. You have other gc who see you more and are busy with them. Let them come to you.

I think you need to step back here and admit some of what you’ve done isn’t right and may unfortunately have damaged your relationship forever.

You have said that you questioned their relationship to begin with and although you did apologise words one said can never be forgotten. You also say that when you turn up uninvited to their home they don’t want to see you. I don’t see why you would turn up uninvited when you know what the situation is like. This is probably just causing more stress to this relationship. You also see that he doesn’t have much contact with his brothers and they also invited to the wedding. Was there issues with the family dynamic before he met his wife?

his wife clearly feels you don’t like her and given some of the background you’ve given I can understand her not wanting to be involved with you and your family at the moment. It’s a difficult situation, but I don’t think you can solely blame them for this which is what your post comes across as you are doing.

To be honest oP I am sorry for your situation, but there has to be a backstory.

People just don’t simply decide not to involve family members on a whim.

I’m not saying the reason is necessarily your fault, but your post is just a slice of information, namely your feelings about the situation as it stands. No one can really offer much feedback of value on that basis, except sorry it has come to this.

I dont think the concerns at it being Ukraine are unreasonable, many sought refuge here so yes it is a dangerous place. As for the rest, it's hard to say when we don't know the complete story. Not allowing a relationship with GC over disagreements about adult choices is deemed petty on other posts. Unfortunately not much you can do OP, if they won't let you, they won't let you.

Maybe he doesn’t think it’s safe but can’t stop the children going?

Or maybe he thinks it is safe? Or he doesn’t care? Or they’re not his kids?

Either way you can’t ask him given precarious state of your relationship, and you have to stay out of it, and never mention it, if you want to know the grandchildren in future. And just pray nothing bad happens to them while visiting Ukraine.

What do you mean by not his kids?

Sorry I was being flippant in searching for reasons why a father wouldn’t stop his young children being taken into an active war zone. I’m sure they are. But most people wouldn’t fathom allowing this for their kids, unless circumstances demanded it.

The fact you are still ignoring the absolute hand grenade you threw out about calling his wife a foreign gold digger speaks volumes.

I can more than hazard a guess as to why your son and his wife are avoiding you.

We never explicitly called her anything. We expressed concern that the relationship may not be built on honest motives, due to her age and back ground , either of those on their own would not have provoked the same questions.
Obviously if a very attractive much younger woman is showing an interest in someone who would generally not be seen as their type or who is clearly much better off financially it is fair to question. We apologised when we were told we were wrong.

What do you mean....age and background please? Is she from a poor family?

… and there it is. I’d bet that this is exactly why you do not have the relationship with your DGC that you would like.

It also seems like you have a real lack of awareness as to the consequence of your behaviour. I can’t imagine that this is helping the situation.

OP, is it not clear to you that you are the cause of this issue?

Obviously if a very attractive much younger woman is showing an interest in someone who would generally not be seen as their type or who is clearly much better off financially it is fair to question

Absolutely zero doubt in anyone’s mind apart from yours why your son can’t be arsed with this poison.

So in several years of not really knowing her or being involved in the children's lives, you've already called her a gold-digger and implied she's a bad parent putting her children's safety at risk for visiting her family in Ukraine. It's not up to you to decide what's "fair" to children you don't even know!

If you manage to be THIS judgemental and interfering when they keep you at a distance, I dread to think how unbearable you'd be if they relaxed the boundaries.