Don’t councils understand that prevention is cheaper than fixing

[Cornercandy]

Councils are struggling with money for the past few years. So why do they cut back things like cleaning drains which are clogged up with dead leaves, sediment and rubbish? When the cost of getting road fixed, planning diversions, hiring of temp traffic lights etc is more money?

Where I live there are two roads which are flooded and closed - never have been before. Yet drove past these roads a few days back and they were absolutely clogged up.

I know where I live there have been two Amber warnings for rain this week. If drains were cleared, the roads wouldn’t be flooded enough to close entirely.

If you don’t have the money you have to cut back and hope that it will be okay.
often emergency provisions come from a different pot than maintenance.
also I think this weather pattern is new so roads that have never flooded before are flooding now - hard to predict in advance on limited funds and staff.

Austerity. If they don’t have money for both maintenance and emergencies, they can only address emergencies, even if this increases costs in the long run. You see the same in the health system.

Exact same problem here.

It's because the councils have no overall plans and are run by clueless but very greedy idiots. They are not audited properly by central govt. They use funds earmarked by govt for useless building schemes/cycle lanes/stuff nobody wants or uses and then plead poverty.

It's like the NHS and all our other public systems: the resources are not going where they are supposed to go.

This.

We are seeing extreme weather due to climate change. Even well resources councils can't manage so much water. It requires upstream measures with landowners.

If you have an expensive item to replace or fix, you take money from another account.

Do provide some evidence.

PS audits are all published, as are council committee papers, meetings are public, and yes central govt determines most of the funding.

Councils have had their funding cut consistently since 2010.

In the last four years it's gone back up but they will have less money than they did in 2010

So they can do less.

ifs.org.uk/publications/how-have-english-councils-funding-and-spending-changed-2010-2024#:~:text=They%20are%20funded%20by%20a,and%20commercial%20and%20investment%20income.

A misunderstanding of local government here.

Councils fire fight because they don’t have the budget to plan for contingencies.

Theyre not stupid, or greedy. Council workers aren’t amongst the highest paid. Most are dedicated members of staff who live in the community they serve.

Do you fight the fire that’s burning or start planning for prevention elsewhere?

Also - would be great if Local communities took some responsibility, rather than throw up their hands and say it isn’t their issues.

Why do Severn Trent need to warn about flushing nappies and sanitary products on the side of their vans? All of this makes a huge difference.

The brook near me floods frequently and a man in waders and wellies appears to unclog the debry (most fallen branches etc) from the drains. Hes the sort of neighbour we need!

DH has just retired from the highway management team.
At one time there were 15 people to work out where any problems were.
The area was split into sections now 1 person is in charge of 3 sections.
The day he finished there were only 5 and he is not being replaced.
The actual maintenance teams has gone from 10 down to 3.
Road gully cleaning was always held twice a year now it's every 18 months.

Same problem here. Clear the drains and a big problem solved. But my council, although bankrupt, can find the money to paint rainbows on the road.

You said it better than me!

Here, it’s not a question of deciding what to prioritise. It’s a question of doing a job badly and then having to do it again very soon afterwards. That can’t be cost effective. If you patch a pothole and it fails within a week or so, so you have to do it again, that’s not saving any money.

Having a plan for clearing clogged ditches and rifes would prevent much of the flooding that takes place here. That was proven last year, when the council eventually had to spend the money to avoid major roads being regularly flooded.

Surely you can fight the fire that’s burning, then make proper plans, so that you don’t have to rush around putting out fires every year.

In 2020, the nearest large town had some Covid funding. They used it to widen a cycle lane on the ring road. No one used the cycle lane, because the town centre is pedestrianised. All it achieved was to cause traffic jams on the ring road. It was swiftly and quietly removed shortly afterwards and the money essentially wasted.

My DH is involved in the local council (over and above his full time job). He does it as his way to give back to our community. He is often physically 'out there' removing dead leaves, cutting back, litter-picking, etc. His observations are:

• There isn't enough money. Resources are really over-stretched and huge amounts of money goes on adult social care rather than infrastructure.
• The council regularly is ripped off by contractors when it should buy services more cheaply which then leads to over-stretched resources being more over-stretched. (Obviously they go through procurement processes but if those awarding contracts don't recognise that it shouldn't cost £50k to tarmac a small layby but suppliers elevate their prices and come in at the same price point then it will always cost £50k to tarmac a layby that's the length of 2 cars. (Maybe I should go and do that work myself for £50k minus costs!))
• Some council workers are ineffective and don't plan ahead (but that's true in most companies, professions, walks of life
• Few people contribute to their communities and if more of us did it then we'd all benefit.

I work in local authority - the budgets are SO frustrating. You can get a pot of money from central gov for a particular scheme, but it must be spent on that scheme. Even if you have change from that pot, it can’t be diverted to another service area. That’s a big issue. There is sometimes a lack of joined up thinking.

FWIW if I want a new pen I have to approach the office manager and put a good case forward…!

This infuriates me. Not quite the same, but I used to work for a housing association and the amount of money they would waste on repairing an ancient boiler time and time again, for example, instead of simply paying to have a new one installed (talking tens of thousands for one person's boiler in one memorable case when a new boiler would have cost 4k max) used to make me despair.

Also if you don’t spend the money from a “pot” you can’t carry it forward or keep it in reserve. You have to spend it. Otherwise you will be deemed to be over funded and lose the budget the following year. That leads to lots of waste, because you’re spending smaller amounts of money for the sake of it and don’t have the ability to build a sinking fund.

There just isn’t enough money to do that. You understand that one in five councils expect to be functionally bankrupt by next year?

People really don't understand the dire situation councils are in and buy the right wing line that there's plenty of money it's just being spent where it shouldn't.
Social care is a huge expense and it's statutory so has to be done. As is providing homeless temp accommodation.
Other non-statutory stuff is done as cheaply as possible as spending more or spending to prevent isn't always possible.
Hopefully it will improve.
The last govt gave money for certain things but then if it was something councils needed often they had to contribute some themselves to get any of the funding. Or it has rules attached.

@Fluffyhoglets i would invite anyone criticising to actually look through the budgets - the statutory spending makes up something like 90% of expenditure which leaves very little left for non statutory. Most spending for an authority I worked in was on children’s and adult social care, look at the cost of a child with complex needs in care. It’s astronomical and a huge proportion of budgets. You can’t cut that spending.

I think what happens when things are in good order is that you can cut back a lot for quite some time and live off of the fact things are in decent nick.

Then, of course, one day, you realise its gone too far and you've created a monster and no way to turn. You've got used to spending minimum, budgets have been flexed to that, but you have a right mess to sort.

I'm convinced that's what happened with potholes.

Cameron said don't increase council tax above x%
Councils managed that by cutting back on maintenance services as salaries and materials increased and got away with it whilst the infrastructure was living on past maintenance
Then, wham, we are facing bust budgets because of inflation and everything let go has become a mess. They've nowhere to turn because of decisions made before - some of which to be fair weren't their choice!

People who work for the council are mostly of moderate intellect at best. Often spend most of their time on tea breaks or flexi leave and would never survive in the private sector given it takes them 28 days to respond to an email.