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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that the ADHD label is masking other things in society?

375 replies

comoatoupeira · 25/09/2024 10:26

Disclaimer this is NOT about being skeptical ADHD is a thing, my brother is diagnosed with ADHD by a doctor as well as a close friend of mine.

Through my job I have been doing a lot of research about the impacts of tech and social media and so on on young people, and also on the elderly who are becoming the first generation of elderly people who are high technology users.

It has all been making me see so many parallels between behaviors associated with ADHD and behaviors that are becoming more and more difficult to control because of the attention-stealing environment we are in, and other aspects of society today like consumerism always available in your pocket, long working hours and both parents working, the difficulty of taking those restorative breaks that are what helps us focus and take a step back.

I'm just feeling like we are looking at some milder cases of ADHD too much as an isolated medical thing rather than a wider societal ill.

I feel like the same thing has happened with depression, framing it as some sort of imbalance that can be fixed by drugs, when it's so much about the societies we live in.

I feel uncomfortable about all of these labels being used especially by young people with mild cases of things, it seems to imprison them in a fixed identity or frame them as having something wrong with them, when none of us a perfect and we all have strengths and weaknesses, and life is about living with them and being open to change.

What do you think?

OP posts:
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6
minipie · 25/09/2024 13:23

Reugny · 25/09/2024 13:11

What do you mean by previous society?

I know adults in their 50s and 60s with ADHD and other neurodevelopmental disorders. In turn some of them have male blood related relatives who were older than them who diagnosed with a neurodevelopmental disorder when they were alive.

Yes I’m thinking further back that this, when we all (or mostly) lived a much more physical and outdoors life, and a much simpler life with fewer choices and expectations. Maybe 200 years ago? A very short time in the scale of human existence but the average human lifestyle has changed far more in that period than in the previous 1800 years.

I am sure people with ADHD and autism existed back then too but it just wouldn’t really have been such an issue (except perhaps in a few very severe cases). The skills that people with these neurodivergences struggle with weren’t as necessary or expected back then.

stanleypops66 · 25/09/2024 13:26

*How do you get adhd children to sleep!

Any ideas gratefully received*
@Namenamchange

I'm a psychologist too. Start with keeping a sleep diary (children's sleep charity have templates). If it's a teen they can complete one too.

It's good to understand if there's a pattern. Do they sleep better during the week or at weekends. Do they need to catch up on sleep at the weekends. Is it a sleep onset problem.

Sleep hygiene- routine, limit screens and blue light, meditation (can find them online), magnesium supplements, lavender oil.

White noise in the background.

Exercise.

Calming activities before bed- bath, colouring in or reading.

If it's massively impacting daily functioning then melatonin.

Notsureofname2 · 25/09/2024 13:26

I agree lots of these are labels…seems people have lost ability to “cope” and manage themselves and for their nearest and dearest. Also there are deviations from being perfect and having the perfect life….all these have labels. You can’t be sad/feel low without someone saying “you have depression”. If you say “you get good days and bad days”…that’s suspected bipolar rather than just normal life.

you can’t have lots of energy….or that’s Adhd.
you can’t be quiet…:that’s autism

SmileyHappyPeopleInTheSun · 25/09/2024 13:31

What do you mean by previous society?
I know adults in their 50s and 60s with ADHD and other neurodevelopmental disorders. In turn some of them have male blood related relatives who were older than them who diagnosed with a neurodevelopmental disorder when they were alive.

Relatives in 70s quirky - my generation late 40/50s mainly boys and classic extreme hyperactive got diagnosed - now many more of the next generation have ADHD or are going though diagnostic process or it's suspected and been tentative mentioned by teachers etc. No idea how common that progression is in other families.

Probably doesn't help DSis and I and cousins seem to have married into similar families to ours with widespread ND in them.

Eightypercent · 25/09/2024 13:31

Namenamchange · 25/09/2024 13:04

My child also has adhd, and I think he does have trauma caused by the adhd and trying to navigate in a world that he finds difficult. He finds rejection and maintaining relationships really hard and he then feels isolated. He find time management very difficult and often becomes overwhelmed. He’s loved and adored too.. but my point is those interaction that have left him feeling lesser, particularly at school were caused by his adhd not the cause of his adhd, and it annoys me when adhd is dismissed as trauma.
@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

This, ☝

I have ADHD. I was bullied remorselessly and violently at school because of my difference, and because of my responses. I have undoubtedly suffered trauma directly or indirectly due to ADHD. My ADHD also massively affects my responses to difficult situations that then may or may not become traumatic.

ForSereneBluePombear · 25/09/2024 13:31

Firstly, I think using the term ‘label’ can be a very damaging thing for any suspected case of neurodiversity, whether it’s ADHD or autism etc, because it’s dismissing very real issues and foregoing crucial support and understanding of our differences. It has become a way for people to conveniently brush these issues under the proverbial carpet, and further marginalises those who are at a high risk of already being marginalised and disadvantaged in life.

There is also simply more awareness of differences in neurobiology, ADHD, Autism, dyslexia, dyspraxia etc. so that’s one reason, technology or not, we’re looking back to famous people in history, or older family members and realising that they were just likely neurodivergent. So to put it bluntly, I think it’s always been around.

I think ADHD specifically gets put into the sceptics box more than any other ND condition because many traits and symptoms could describe the average person, and it’s also often very misunderstood. Many people struggle to pay attention to things, or find timekeeping hard, or have a messy house or get hyper focused on a particular thing, but this doesn’t mean that someone has ADHD. It’s a difference in neurobiology just like autism is.

I read an article a while ago about a young woman studying at a university in the states, and she got caught up in the recreational use of drugs such as Ritalin to increase test performance, except when she took it, it made everything clearer, as though she had only just seen the world around her in detail, rather than it being a recreational ‘high’ like her peers experienced, and that’s when she knew she had ADHD. she realised that her room was messy, her appearance was unkempt, and she had many other daily struggles with keeping up with work and basic timekeeping, and could only see these issues once she had taken the drugs. I don’t think ADHD is as common as it would suggest from statistics of children and adults getting diagnosed, but certainty there are likely milder cases where simple lifestyle changes could improve those difficulties.

The other societal issue becomes apparent when there are lots of children coming through the school system who come from chaotic, neglectful or difficult home lives, which can affect crucial areas of development such as healthy attachment, boundaries, routine, healthy food consumption, and brain development, creating a whole host of issues that can look very much like ADHD, but aren’t necessarily an actual difference in neurobiology. Or it could be in fact that the parents are undiagnosed ND, and struggle with their own lives. These types of young people are more likely to be NEET or get in trouble with the law. Poverty isn’t in itself to blame, but more home life and parenting skills. I’d imagine there are higher rates of ADHD diagnoses in children of teenage parents too. (Not that teenage parents can’t be good parents but it is a likelihood as it correlates with lower socio-economic backgrounds). Prisoners have many traits that correlate with ADHD or are actually diagnosed with it.

There’s also the argument for ADHD brain type being attuned to a more ‘hunter gatherer’ lifestyle, needing hyper focus for hunting and gathering and needing long periods of time to do ‘nothing’ in order to gain the energy for more hyperfocus. This would suggest that our modern society isn’t really set up for those with ADHD, especially in education. It’s not what I would describe as natural to have children sat in classrooms and being taught in the Victorian way we currently do in general nevermind SEN kids, but that’s an argument for another day. Some jobs are perfect for ADHD’s such as gardening, cleaning, making / creating and anything practical where this brain type can be put to amazing uses.

I think in general you are working yourself into a dead end by only exploring that correlation in isolation.

ladycardamom · 25/09/2024 13:31

Yeah I work with a lot of young children with complex trauma and people are often keen to get them diagnosed with ADHD. They're still in fight or flight mode so I don't feel comfortable with ADHD assessments so quickly.

SuperBored · 25/09/2024 13:32

@Namenamchange @onthecoastalpath I have always needed something to distract my brain at bedtime in order to go to sleep. I use what I would call more 'passive' noise from a radio, that I start off listening to in a darkened room, but within a short time I fall asleep. For me its when you have visual or interaction with something (Alexa/tablet/phone) that I feel it would interfere with my sleep.
In your experience @onthecoastalpath would a radio fall into the same category as the rest of tech?

DancingTurtle · 25/09/2024 13:35

I feel uncomfortable about all of these labels being used especially by young people with mild cases of things, it seems to imprison them in a fixed identity or frame them as having something wrong with them, when none of us a perfect and we all have strengths and weaknesses, and life is about living with them and being open to change.

I overheard a conversation about being a teenager and feeling down and confused. The discussion was how in their day their mum would tell them it was just part of being a teenager and to go out and play. But nowadays the same feelings would be labelled as a diagnosis and thus harder to move on from. Made me think.

elastamum · 25/09/2024 13:35

I have ADHD. I found my corporate career incredibly painful, even though I was very successful. Eventually I took early retirement as I felt my brain would explode with the stress of the concentration required. However I was fantastic at crisis management. In ancient times I would have been a hunter or explorer as I am quick thinking and fearless. Sadly there aren't that many modern jobs that play to my ADHD strengths. My Ds is the same. Bright, brave and intolerant. It's pretty difficult fitting in to your average graduate job if you have ADHD. These traits were important for tribal survival in past times but can get you into trouble in the modern world.

Willyoujustbequiet · 25/09/2024 13:37

Littlefish · 25/09/2024 13:13

@comoatoupeira

There is no such thing as 'mild' ADHD. My daughter will get a degree. She is very intelligent. She also struggles to cope on a daily basis, and often has to sleep for several hours in the afternoon just to cope with the efforts involved in going to lectures in the morning.

The fact that someone else might see her ADHD as 'mild' simply shows how well she masks in public, and how hard she works to develop strategies. It DOES NOT mean her ADHD is mild.

There certainly is in my experience.

Ds was impacted very severely but has now grown out of it to the extent that even the Senco has discussed it removing support as essentially its not necessary any longer. Yes he still has the same diagnosis but is only mildly affected now. Many kids experience this. It's disingenuous to claim otherwise.

Eightypercent · 25/09/2024 13:38

GenAvocadoOnToast · 25/09/2024 11:08

20+ years ago there wasn’t a mental health crisis amongst children

I assure you there was. You just didn’t see those children because they were hidden away.

I'd suggest that the crisis IS in part more severe now due to the decimation of children's and family support services, both in and out of schools, due to Torry cuts and austerity.

Mari2003 · 25/09/2024 13:38

onthecoastalpath · 25/09/2024 10:46

I am a psychologist who supports children in schools. Often once we address sleep problems we see the ADHD symptoms decrease.

I always start with sleep issues, which are often related to using tech at bedtime, at the start of a new case.

My ADHD child has had trouble with sleep since they were born, definitely not related to tech.

Now medicated to sleep. Still has ADHD.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 25/09/2024 13:41

Namenamchange · 25/09/2024 13:20

Yes I am saying adhd is causing trauma in children when their needs are not met.

Imagine the stress your body is going through trying to fit into a school system that isn’t working, where you are failing everyday because you aren’t good enough and you are being told to try harder and you can do better .. for years and years. I don’t think it’s ok to dismiss the behaviour as trauma.

I sit in panels where they talk about needing to lower the waiting lists because the lists is years long and the systems can’t cope, and I’ve seen cases be dismissed and labelled as trauma because the child can’t cope at school and has become violent. They get dismissed and removed from the waiting list. The child is unable to cope with an underfunded school system which has caused trauma to the child.

Oh l agree with that. My Dd had terrible school related trauma. I was addressing those people who were saying peoplw saying ADHD symptoms were usually caused by trauma Which is not true.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 25/09/2024 13:42

Mari2003 · 25/09/2024 13:38

My ADHD child has had trouble with sleep since they were born, definitely not related to tech.

Now medicated to sleep. Still has ADHD.

Yeah mine too.

Never went to sleep early ever. And in fact isn’t this delayed sleep onset part of ADHD?

MsNeis · 25/09/2024 13:46

What you're saying is very insightful, thank you OP. I agree with you, yes.

Eightypercent · 25/09/2024 14:05

@PutOnYourRedShoesAndLetsDance You do know ADHD is a type of ASD and you are born with it.

Seriously? A type of ASD? Do you have any evidence to back this up?

EcoChica1980 · 25/09/2024 14:06

Great post. I agree.

Eightypercent · 25/09/2024 14:07

Notsureofname2 · 25/09/2024 13:26

I agree lots of these are labels…seems people have lost ability to “cope” and manage themselves and for their nearest and dearest. Also there are deviations from being perfect and having the perfect life….all these have labels. You can’t be sad/feel low without someone saying “you have depression”. If you say “you get good days and bad days”…that’s suspected bipolar rather than just normal life.

you can’t have lots of energy….or that’s Adhd.
you can’t be quiet…:that’s autism

Why do you think ADHD equates to lots of energy?

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 25/09/2024 14:10

Eightypercent · 25/09/2024 14:07

Why do you think ADHD equates to lots of energy?

Yeah. My Dd is very quiet and shy. Does not have lots of energy ever!

Atill has ADHD

Reugny · 25/09/2024 14:13

Eightypercent · 25/09/2024 14:07

Why do you think ADHD equates to lots of energy?

Lots of people still stereotype people with ADHD as being hyperactive not aware that ADD doesn't now exist and is simply ADHD.

Psychoticbreak · 25/09/2024 14:13

Varying degrees and levels of ignorance on this thread. Interesting to see how many still make generalisations and massive sweeping statements. I wont say educational because as a person with both adhd and asd I have read and heard most things at this point but despite the fact it is now an open topic and more talked about it certainly does not seem that people are being educated.

Citrusandginger · 25/09/2024 14:23

comoatoupeira · 25/09/2024 10:26

Disclaimer this is NOT about being skeptical ADHD is a thing, my brother is diagnosed with ADHD by a doctor as well as a close friend of mine.

Through my job I have been doing a lot of research about the impacts of tech and social media and so on on young people, and also on the elderly who are becoming the first generation of elderly people who are high technology users.

It has all been making me see so many parallels between behaviors associated with ADHD and behaviors that are becoming more and more difficult to control because of the attention-stealing environment we are in, and other aspects of society today like consumerism always available in your pocket, long working hours and both parents working, the difficulty of taking those restorative breaks that are what helps us focus and take a step back.

I'm just feeling like we are looking at some milder cases of ADHD too much as an isolated medical thing rather than a wider societal ill.

I feel like the same thing has happened with depression, framing it as some sort of imbalance that can be fixed by drugs, when it's so much about the societies we live in.

I feel uncomfortable about all of these labels being used especially by young people with mild cases of things, it seems to imprison them in a fixed identity or frame them as having something wrong with them, when none of us a perfect and we all have strengths and weaknesses, and life is about living with them and being open to change.

What do you think?

I would start by asking what about people who aren't diagnosed with ADHD but who have anxiety, depression, addictive behaviours, risk taking behaviours, poor learning outcomes, struggle with personal relationships and engage in criminality.

If an ADHD diagnosis is fashionable, so seemingly, is complaining it's over diagnosed and/or not a real thing. In truth, it is probably under diagnosed especially amongst people in the list above which is just off the top of my head.

ADHD is a long term condition, and like other LTC, people find ways to manage it their own way. Technology breaks can be really helpful, as can fresh air, good nutrition and exercise. And for some people it's medication. I'm personally very interested by the research into ADHD and gut bacteria.

But often it's also about people finding their tribe and the right job or career. We think of people with ADHD being technology geeks, but lots work in the arts, in healthcare and in the emergency services, having sought out a career where they aren't tied to a desk.

If someone is struggling with ADHD the right thing for them will individualised and will be far beyond a tech break.

And If you meet someone who is burnt out, or who isn't achieving what they could be, consider if they could have ADHD.

ashitghost · 25/09/2024 14:25

I used to get depressed. I was in a secure MH unit after the birth of my kids. Taken everything under the sun. I really bought into the concept that depression was the same as having a broken leg, heart disease, cancer etc. Then I was diagnosed with cancer. And I came to the conclusion that my personality was more or less pathologized for years. It was nothing like cancer. I’ve never felt depressed since. Apart from my PND, which was a pronounced fast decline, I feel like I was just indulged for years by medical professionals.

harrumphh · 25/09/2024 14:26

EmmaEmEmz · 25/09/2024 10:32

And depression is also a medical issue, that is caused by a chemical imbalance. Again, not a label, and us something that needs medication in many cases.

That is ONE possible cause. Of many. And the reasons for that can be biological or environmental, or both.