Aibu to call this financial abuse??

[Tabletopp]

Morning folks,

my brother (43 years old) has been through done financially tough times recently.
mum offered to help him by allowing him to open up a couple of credit cards in her name. He uses the cards and pays directly from his bank with no cost to mum. My worry is that these cards are maxed out now.
I’ve spoke to mum and she says that she’s not worried as he always pays. She views it as her debt in name only.
is this an example of financial abuse?

Why would it be financial abuse? Did your brother coerce your mum into doing this? Did he put pressure on her?

if he didn’t and she offered then of course it isn’t abuse. If he did pressure her in any way then yes it is, especially if she doesn’t understand the repercussions.

No absolutely not. She's a consenting adult.

Why do you think it is abuse?

It sounds like a terrible idea, as she is liable for the debt because it is in her name.
It may also be illegal, depending on the agreement signed.

How would that be abusive? She offered, he pays.

I wouldn't want to do it, but it's not abusive.

No it isn't. Your mum is a consenting adult who made a decision to do this. She was not coerced, threatened or otherwise pressured into this arrangement. He is paying the cards off and your mum is (currently) under no obligation to come up with the money herself.
Not sure why you are worried that the cards are maxed out. For all you know, he may have been paying them off in full every month.

No. Financial abuse would be him taking the cards out in her name without her knowing, forcing her to do it or refusing to pay her back. It's not the best idea though. Encourage her to move the debt onto 0% credit cards.

No. It's an arrangement mutually agreed by the two parties and he seems to be keeping his side of the bargain by paying it. If they're maxed out then so be it, it means he still has to pay and can't use them. If he were to pressurise her to take credit under his name then not pay it back, I guess then that could be erring into that territory.
But if she went into it with her eyes open then she's making that choice to try and help him out a bit.

It’s not abusive I don’t think (unless he used some kind of coercion or influence to get her to take them out). But it does sound very unwise.

How is this helping him out to the financial hole? Surely he’s just getting in deeper? But it’s in her name so she would be liable for it.

Am I understanding right that he has maxed out two high interest cards and is paying only the minimum?

Presumably also the reason she has had to do this is that he has bad credit, ie he’s failed to pay back debt before?

I agree that he is keeping to the agreement. It just worries me. The total amount is over 14k.

mum has said that if it’s not cleared before she dies then his share of any inheritance has to be reduced, however that’s not my concern

Why on earth would she do this? Very foolish. Not FA, however did she 1000% understand the repercussions? Did she agree that he could 'max them out'? It'll be her credit file that suffers

Might be foolish and ill advised, but not abuse as she fully consented.

Contrary to the popular, I'd be worried about this too, your mum is liable for these debts, if brother gets hit by a bus, if he sees his arse and decides not to pay, if he loses his job etc. I'd be asking if there was any way for brother to get his own card and transfer the balance, anything. It's very risky, not even the "he may not pay" but if something happens to him. Not abuse but worry.

Is your mother very elderly or particularly vulnerable?

Unless your mum has included that stipulation in her will it counts for nothing. The cards are in her name so her estate will be liable for paying them off. If it is just you and your brother to inherit then essentially 7k will come from your share and 7k will come from your brother's share.

She’s 74 and capable of consenting

well then she needs to include the stipulation in her will that these particular debts come out of brothers inheritance.

If she is capable of consenting and he did not coerce her, manipulate her or keep significant information from her to keep her from making an informed decision then no. It's simply a mother willing to make a financial sacrifice to help her son. As you're speaking about inheritance, it sounds like she has the means to do so without suffering any acute hardship.

No, it's not financial abuse.

Financial abuse is denying someone access to family money, or removing their access to money and ability to make spending and financial decisions.

This doesn't sound like any of those things, this sounds like your brother being bad with money and your mum, like many parents, helping him out not really thinking through the impact on her finances, or the fact that bailing someone out financially doesn't always help with the root cause of them being in financial difficulty in the first place

I'd do a credit report on her

How is that "contrary to the popular"? Everyone (almost everyone) is saying that it is a bad plan and worrying. It is, however, not financial abuse. Things can be worrying and a bad idea without being abuse.

I suspect her credit rating may have taken a hit if the cards are maxed out and only being paid down slowly, but as a consenting adult with capacity, it isn’t financial abuse. At worst it is poor decisioning on the part of your DM - unless there is a back story which you haven’t shared about her being coerced - but that isn’t something you have mentioned and doesn’t sound that it is the case.

her comment about reducing his inheritance if any of the debt is outstanding when she dies, unless it’s written into the will or as a codicil is irrelevant and will not stand and his inheritance must be paid out as per her will ( unless you can convince your brother to agree to a deed of variation )

I work in the debt business and although not abuse she is on thin ice with regards to him keeping to his side of the agreement and paying on time etc - if he just didn’t pay or died your mum unfortunately is liable and depending on the creditors he’s lent of some can be brutal in regaining funds ! She could be taken to court, made to release any assets and so on - the quicker your brother can pay this of the better

Foolish, but not abuse

It doesn’t sound like financial abuse unless your brother coerced or convinced your mum, and it doesn’t sound like that happened. It does, however, seem like pretty poor judgement on your mum’s part! I understand her wanting to help her son, but handing him £14k worth of credit probably wasn’t the wisest way to do it (although he is responsible for his own spending)

I would suggest this has the potential to be abusive.
A similar situation happened to a friend. In that situation the card user (daughter) was using one card to pay off another. Eventually the sh1t hit the fan, she was unable to make the payments for a few months and then it was her mother's responsibility to make the payments. The other siblings were understandably angry and it caused a massive family rift.