To think if men had to have mammograms...

[YourSpleenIsDamp]

... somebody would have invented a better way to do it? Still bruised three days later - chest and boobs - and holding poses while they get the right angle has set my arthritic shoulder off. I feel bad complaining about it, because obviously I'm grateful for the screening, but my god the soreness. It's brutal. Currently on yearly screening, looking forward to only needing it every three years when I turn 50. Maybe it's less awful without F cups? But my mum is an A cup and she finds it horrendous too! Any advice for making it more bearable?

I agree. I've never had a problem, it's just a very brief few seconds of slight discomfort. I always get ridiculously anxious awaiting the results, but the actual procedure I couldn't care less about.

I agree mammograms are quicker, and thus more tolerable, but unfortunately they are sometimes not the best tool for the risk profile.

I believe that my risk profile (young/dense breasts/strong family history/no lifestyle risks/no BRCA) are being let down by a screening program designed for a different patient.

I was shocked to learn that ultrasounds are a lot less effective than I thought at detecting cancer that mammography cannot. Mammos miss about 20% of all cancers. Ultrasounds are estimated to catch only an extra 1-2% of those.

MRI’s do have a false negative rate, estimated to be between 4-7 %, so nothing is perfect, but it’s not in the double digits.

I definitely did have a false sense of security around the effectiveness of relying on the mammo/ultrasound combo for my risk profile. And of course, my cancer (IDC, so nothing special) was not picked up by mammo. I was extremely lucky to be in the 1-2% group, but they couldn’t reliably find it with an ultrasound every time, so hence I’m a fan of MRIs and now qualify for annual mri screening. I also have to have mammos and ultrasounds anyway in order to qualify for the mri, which is a bit of a bore.

If you struggle with any procedure, personally I have found oral sedation to be very effective. I have a severe phobia of most medical situations so I’m not able to “relax”. Even with properly diagnosed medical ptsd it was quite a task to get my request for proper sedation and pain management taken seriously by the cancer team, but now that I seem to have that in hand, things are much easier to manage.

I’ve had an mri with one and the comment made by the care team after was that they wished more patients would be sedated as it was much easier and quicker for them, and the resulting image quality was excellent.

If you have to be in the mri machine for such a long time, I’d highly recommend exploring sedation to see if it would help you.

Just sharing the knowledge I’ve picked up on the way.

Strength to you on your journey x

That's really interesting. How long does the MRI take and are you in it head first? I'm claustrophobic and feel panicky just thinking about going in head first.

I’m not the best person to ask. The beauty of sedation is I have no firm recollection. You are face down though. Checking with DH, he could only quantify it as not that long. I’m not claustrophobic though.

What better way do you think there is?

@WhereAreWeNow for a breast MRI you have to lie face down and go in head first. I think mine was about 45 minutes

Big boobs here. I have always found mammograms to be extremely uncomfortable, verging on actual pain, but all of a sudden it stops just as you get to that stage.
So just when you think you can't bear it for a second longer, it's all over. Thankfully.
Clinging onto the machine for dear life when you're in a really uncomfortable position anyway adds to the awfulness of the procedure. I usually stagger away feeling quite traumatised, much like after having root canal work done.
I am envious of those of us who don't find it to be a big deal, but -- everyone's different.
I raised the issue of pain with a hospital Dr who was sticking a really large needle into my breast to draw out fluid from a cyst (for testing -- all benign) and he looked quite shocked. I said 'you don't stick needles like this into a man's testicles without some pain relief, do you?' He said it wasn't the same thing at all...
(Well, he would, wouldn't he? )
I was just asking if they had a numbing spray or something. Nope.

That’s awful when you consider the dentist uses numbing cream on your gums before an injection. It sounds horrendous.

Yes I've heard that too.
Even more after reading Margaret McCartney's The Patient Paradox.

@WhereAreWeNow when I've had Le breast MRI scans, they have taken around an hour. As the previous poster said, you go in head first, and on your front, with your boobs dangling through two holes. But even MRI imaging doesn't always pick up all problems. When I had my cancer diagnosis
before my surgery, I had two mammograms, at least three ultrasound scans, and an MRI scan, all of which confirmed two small tubular tumours in different quadrants of my breast. When I saw my breast surgeon after I'd had a mastectomy and reconstruction, and the histology had been carried out of the breast tissue that has been removed, I was shocked that a third lobular tumour had been found which has not shown up on any of the three types of imaging.

Thank you so much for the reply. I’ve been diagnosed with lobular breast cancer and I completely get where you’re coming from about the confidence in the different test results.

I was so lucky with the mammogram - lobular cancers don’t form lumps, they infiltrate the tissues and they’re among the types of cancer that are most often missed on mammogram until they grow to larger sizes.

I got the call back within a couple of days of the mammogram and the appointment included another 3D mammogram and an ultrasound - the latter was also used to guide the doctor in taking about half a dozen samples for biopsy. I was given an informal diagnosis by the consultant radiographer who did the tests - 99% certain that what she was looking at was a carcinoma, and then an appointment with the consultant a week later confirmed that it was lobular.

The consultant was concerned because neither the mammogram nor the ultrasound could confirm the size of the tumour. It was thought to be around 4-5 cm, but a subsequent (long and very uncomfortable!) MRI confirmed it was actually 10cm and deeper in the tissues than first thought. Even that was difficult as the breast tissue was dense and it was difficult to define the margins of the tumour - hence the time spent in the scanner. The ultrasound had confirmed that there were no visible signs of the lymph nodes being affected, but there is a margin of error of 20% or so, so when they finally decide on the type of surgery, it will include a biopsy of the sentinel node to confirm. The surgeon is pretty sure there is no spread to the nodes but says biopsy is the gold standard, so that will happen later this year.

The scariest thing for me was when they confirmed that the tumour was 10cm. The consultant advised that because of the size they had to be sure it hadn’t spread anywhere else - at this size cells can travel anywhere in the body via the blood stream. So a full body CT was organised and an agonising wait of a week for the result. Thankfully there’s no spread that they can detect.

I’ve been on Letrozole since April and the last examination a couple of weeks ago confirmed that the tumour has shrunk, so the dreaded MRI is next Monday to try to get an idea of how much and then there will be a plan for surgery.

It’s a hard road once you have a breast cancer diagnosis, and my couple of posts on this thread might seem a bit condescending, but I promise they’re not meant to be. It’s just that once you have a diagnosis that will likely save your life, and it’s as a result of a free test without which you would never have known it was there, it kind of focuses the mind !

And I wish you well too.x

I have lobular breast cancer and it’s really scary. I was diagnosed in April and after the mammogram I had an MRI and CT scan - I too was warned that a lot of lobular tumours below a certain size, can go undetected on scans. I haven’t had surgery yet, as I’m undergoing hormone therapy to see if the tumour can be shrunk enough to avoid radical surgery - results so far are hopeful as the surgeon thinks there has been significant shrinkage, but MRI next week will confirm hopefully.

Mine was about an hour and a half, but I have lobular breast cancer which is difficult to image, so it takes a bit longer. I went in feet first to the scanner, face down on a framework with boobies suspended in two containers !! The staff were lovely, very supportive and at any time during the scan I could press a panic button and they would bring me out.

My head was at the front of the scanner and there was a mirror, so I could see into the room beyond. The staff check on you every now and then via intercom during the scans, and that’s quite comforting. I’m sure you’ll be fine, but be sure to discuss your concerns with the staff and they’ll do whatever is necessary to put you at ease.

@Rosscameasdoody It sounds as though things are looking positive for you and I hope your scan shows there has been significant shrinkage. I hope you're not finding the letrozole too gruelling. I took it took it for two years after my surgery and found it very hard going. If you're getting bad joint pains and other side effects, I was told by several people that the original licensed brand, Femara, produces far fewer side effects than the generic brands. Once I changed to Femara it did become much more bearable. GPs are allowed to specify Femara in their prescriptions, although many are reluctant to do so because it's so much more expensive than the generic brands. Good luck for Monday.

I have had mammograms at our local hospital and at the contracted out screening service locally. The machines are different at both and I find it very much less painful at the hospital. I'm having them 6-monthly at present so I'm very happy that they're now all at the hospital! Mind you... they are only half as painful as they used to be because I only have one boob nowadays (hence the 6- monthly mammograms....)

Seriously folks - they aren't comfortable and can be bloody painful, but it's only for a few minutes and it you take paracetamol at least half an hour beforehand it can help a little. Take all the screening you can get - it's not infallible but you will have a much better chance of keeping both your boobs.

@YourSpleenIsDamp I'm so sorry you have had such a bad experience. I haven't heard of it bruising anyone before. It might be worth taking some photos and asking the screening service if it is normal to be so bruised after a mammogram? It might be that you had a very inexperienced (or just very bad) technician doing it.

It isn't death rates from different cancers that we're discussing here. It's that woman are subjected to painful, degrading screening and diagnostic procedures that could be made less horrible. Look at all the accounts just in this thread of radiographers being rough, causing pain and sometimes bruising.

Another example is hysteroscopy being carried out with no anaesthesia or pain relief.

People are simply saying that if screening for testicular cancer was proposed and it involved a man's balls being squashed very hard between two plates, often painfully, chances are that would have been thought unacceptable and an alternative would have been sought.

If that were the case, I think they would've made the prostate exam as it is obsolete by now

I think the “if it was men” trope is complete nonsense. A mammogram is an uncomfortable, bordering on painful experience. I don’t imagine it’s any worse than the test that inserts an instrument into the penis and then expands it like an umbrella being put up. I haven’t got a penis but it made me wince just hearing about it.

Please I ask a you a question? I am now 51 and likely to be invited for a mammogram soon. I have mental health issues and am neurodivergent. I can't cope with the sensation of being squashed at all. Definitely not on my breasts. I don't like them being squashed or pulled about (or even moving really). There's no way I'll cope with a mammogram, it's likely to leave me suicidal as it will trigger one of my MH conditions, especially if I am mauled about like some of the stories on this thread!!!

Interestingly my mum went for one mammogram, found it absolutely horrendous and never went back and she is really really stoical about such things and has a high pain threshold.. So that's also making me think I won't cope as no-one would describe me as stoical!!!

So mammograms are not an option for me. My question is would it be worth me paying for an MRI instead? I've had a head one and that didn't touch me so assuming they are the same? Appreciate they may not be as good as a mammogram as you've said but wondered whether they are worth considering if mammograms are not an option at all. What would the pros and cons of the MRI. Is there a greater risk of false positives for example?

Or should I just stick to self-exams at home?

Thank you!🙏

Just to add that I have a Jewish Grandparent and have had BRCA testing which was thankfully negative. If you have Jewish ancestry (at least one Jewish grandparent) you can sign up for the NHS Jewish BRCA testing here:

jewishbrca.org

And it's just a spit test, so no one needs to manhandle your boobs 😀

Ethnically jewish people have a much greater chance of carrying the BRCA gene mutation (about 1 in 40 Ashkenazis compared to 1 in 250 of the general population) so if you have recent Jewish heritage it's a good idea to consider testing.

Both males and females can apply.

I had a mammogram and ultrasound 2 weeks ago.
I was so scared because my Mum filled my head with horror stories about how excruciatingly painful it is. So much so that I put it off for years.
I'm 55 and needed to go as there is breast cancer in my family.

I'm not in UK so went private and paid 150 EUR. It wasn't painful at all and the best money I have spent lately. Had my results on paper and the images on a disc before I left.

Seems like it depends on the operator and the technology. The Dr told me it should not be painful.

They flattern the breast to reduce xray dose and scatter also to reduce movement and blurring. The image is of better quality as a result and therefore more diagnostic.
Ultrasound is less sensitive and only useful for a focal point or discrete lump.
It shouldnt be painful and if there is soreness under the breast tell your mammographer before you start

Whilst unpleasant, a mammoth

Also one of the treatments for prostate cancer are radioactive rods inserted into the peritoneum and into the prostate whilst going through a scanner. So men dont get off that lightly either!

I'll try again.
Whilst unpleasant, a mammogram did save my life. It found my lump that I couldn't feel and the biopsy confirmed it was invasive ductal carcinoma.
I'm dreading the follow up as my sore, fluidy boob will be squashed and it will hurt but I'll take pain relief prior.
They are a necessary tool for saving lives.