To send DS to preschool full time even though I work part time?

[thunderstormsunday]

Because he is doing my bloody head in … obviously that’s sort of a joke but some truth in it.

DS attended a private day nursery close to where I work for three days a week while I worked. Last year, I was on maternity leave for twelve months and he dropped down to two days at nursery and one at a local preschool just before his third birthday, partly to try to make friends he’d be going to school with. Now I am back at work three days a week we’ve kept that going as DH wfh Fridays so can pick up and drop off (the preschool is only 9-3 with no wraparound.)

I don’t work Tuesdays and Wednesdays and DS attends Tuesday morning 9-12 but I am considering sending him for both days. My reason is that to be honest he is wild. He does have so many lovely points but he is just never still, manic, charges around the house (not looking where he’s going so ends up slamming into things) trashes things …

It isn’t like this all the time. It seems to come in waves. We had a bloody awful period from February through to about may, then he calmed down and seemed quite nice and now he’s ramping up again.

The problem is it’s detrimental to our relationship because I feel like I spend all the time telling him off. Don’t do that, leave her alone, get off there, no get down, no I said GET DOWN. It’s so easy to get sucked into a negative cycle.

I used to deal with this by just being out and about all the time (he’s better out of the house) but that’s trickier with two of them and expensive and exhausting.

I feel mean but I am considering at least upping Tuesday to a full session (9-3) and then considering adding Wednesday.

He isn’t a bad child or anything but I do struggle a bit with him; always have if I am honest.

I had a similar age gap, and a similar dynamic, it was hard!! Does he like preschool? Does he have friends there? If so, I'd definitely send him, nothing to feel bad about at all!

Yeah I’d send him. My middle child is an August baby so was in full time school at 4yrs and 2wks. He was ready for it as he had been at a private nursery from 1yrs old full time until his sister was born in the March before he went to school. Then he attended for his free sessions until July. It’s hard work at that age, and if he enjoys pre school then send him and enjoy a 1-1 day with the baby. Don’t feel guilty. My child referenced above is 20 now and at university and he doesn’t even remember being at nursery. Well adjusted, smart, kind. Mums spend too much time feeling guilty about things.

Just send him!. Don't overthnk or worry about it!. You are still spending plenty of time with him!. It will help your mental health!

It’s really hard to know to be honest @TokyoSushi . He doesn’t get upset at drop off and trots in happily. I think he likes going for the morning session but finds the whole day a bit much would be my instinct if I’m really honest.

I'd go with that for now then! He'll be in school next September (if I'm working it out correctly?) so you might enjoy one day a week where you can take him places without the bustle of weekends and school holiday footfall. It's something I miss now my son is at school!

Why not add another half day then and plan something for the afternoons rather than just being at home if he trashes it? Could be a class, soft play, visit a friend/family, go to the library/swimming etc. Or something planned at home like baking. I think by this age they need a lot of interaction/stimulation so on the days that DD wasn't at pre-school I'd have a plan of something to occupy us together for an hour or two at least, and then she would be happy playing a bit more independently.

I think it's a reflection on how times have changed as people have the free hours and many have to both work full-time to financially survive.
When my teens where young almost no one sent their 3 year old full time especially it they had a baby and were off. So there were always people to hang out with and so we went out everyday but to free stuff like parks, beaches, woods, museums etc there were also some good stay and play groups to mix it up.
I loved those days (though it was hard with 3 ND kids) but if you are hating it then it seems silly to push through.
It does sound though as if he is doing it for some attention. Do you get to give him some one to one attention? That might help?

At almost 4 and starting school next year I’d have no guilt about his hours. It’s great prep for school, he’s at the age where they do have friends and play together, it sounds like he’s happy to go and there’s no upset at drop off - honestly I don’t see the issue. Especially as the toddler groups are generally geared towards younger ones and can be a bit rubbish for this age. My 3YOs (private) school nursery insists on 5 mornings at a minimum the first term and then expects them to build up to pretty much full time by the summer- they’ll allow 4 full days and one afternoon off. I’m sure they just want the money but the line they give us and I’m sure there’s some truth in it, is readiness for reception.

I would definitely send to preschool and feel no guilt. At that age they start to want to play more with their friends. As someone with a 31/2 year old high energy DD who requires lots of interaction or just becomes destructive and climbs everything I know your battle. Like you we have outgrown all the local music/ story/playgroup sessions as they are all primarily aimed at under 3s. I've found filling the 3 afternoons she has off hard as the weather has turned this year around us so going in the garden/ park is a bit miserable in the rain and drizzle. Finding indoor entertainment starts getting expensive.

We have an annual pass for a farm place near us with a soft play which has filled an afternoon. I've also just found a little "mini farmers" session aimed at 3-5 yr olds and I'm considering that one afternoon. We also have a preschool gymnastics session that I'm considering attending over winter (luckily it's pay as you go). Otherwise my go to this winter is grandma's, playdates with friends whose children are also off same afternoons as DD and an activity.

Selfishly because of DDs sleep and the way the day is organised.

So at the moment she usually sleeps around 1130-130 with variation there but she’ll have a good long nap at midday.

At present on Tuesdays she goes to a little baby / toddler class in the morning. She will have a sleep after that and I have to have her sleep in the car because I have to go and get DS once it is finished, so i can’t go home have her to go to sleep for twenty minutes then wake her again to do the preschool run. So Tuesdays currently look like

6-7 am ish kids up, breakfast etc. cbeebies play while we all get washed and dressed

9am drop ds at preschool

915-1015 dd happy playing with her toys, has a little snack, might read some books as I clear up from breakfast and put a wash on etc

1025-1125 baby class

1130-1145 have a little drive, dd nods off

11-50-1155 all of five minutes 🤣

12 pick up ds, go home, lunch. This is where it’s tricky. I am pinging back and forth checking dd in the car, ds is playing but a bit bored

130 dd wakes up groggy and grumpy, often refuses lunch, takes me a while to cheer her up. ds gets more and more silly and destructive

2 think of something to do for the afternoon. But what? We can and do soft play centres, role play centres, library, parks but parks are so difficult while dd isn’t walking. The 2-5 period is the most difficult in the day really.

If ds is in preschool until 3, if it’s a dry day we could stop at the park for a bit and home at 4, which isn’t too bad … And mostly I get the time while dd sleeps to get shit done! 😂

I would look at doing this at least from Easter so that he's used to doing full time ready for school start.

In terms of whether to do it right now, I think things to consider are:

(1) Is this purely developmental, or is it attention-seeking because he wants 1:1 time with you? Is he jealous of baby being at home with you more, and being demanding when he gets the time at home with you because he wants all the attention to be on him?

(2) In considering (1), how does he behave in nursery/preschool? And does he enjoy nursery/preschool?

(3) If he needs 1:1 time, can this be facilitated during your days at home?

(3) Are there activities - not necessary at cost ones - that you could be doing on your days with him that would wear him out and then allow you to have a calmer rest of the day together? Can you go out early-ish - even if its super early before any DP/DH leaves for work - or with 1yo napping in pushchair - and let him charge around an age-appropriate playground/soft play for an hour and get some of the beans out and/or get some 1:1 active play kicking a ball around, running around etc, for example? When back at home, can he be set up with some easy sensory play/play activities etc building up to 20-30 minute time windows to keep him occupied at times you have to attend to younger child, so that he does not notice the attention not being on him so much - lots of ideas online for this or things like colouring, puzzles, duplo etc... where can set him off and will hopefully buy you a little time window before he becomes bored or needs re-directing.

your younger dc will want less sleep soon.
you can just have a dull afternoon at home, but with you, play dough, cooking, a little tv? a book, he needs some chill out time, he must be over tired after the morning

Just seen I've cross-posted with your update. I'm sorry, I don't really understand why DD is still in the car... Bring her into the house. Her nap is the 1:1 time he gets with you after she's had all morning with you, and you're interrupting that time every few minutes him to check on her, and then she wakes up and gets your attention for being grumpy. I can see why he escalates.

Could DD be napping in pram after preschool pick up whilst he gets 1:1 time somewhere near nursery? Could he have a snack at nursery pick up then have lunch with you an DD when she wakes up from nap to facilitate this?

See this is someone with a chilled out child

He isn’t tired at all after the morning session, and he just doesn’t really do ‘dull’ days at home. All that happens is he gets bored and gets into mischief. He’s better kept busy and active. However, since I do have another child who is happy with chilled days at home it’s hard balancing those needs.

@Catopia id be more likely to reduce a bit at that point, as the weather is better and DD will hopefully be walking so we can do more enjoyable things as a family. At the moment it’s very hard and is pretty much limited to soft play type type activities but even that’s hard as we aren’t ready to go until about 2 and most open up to school age children at around 3 for obvious reasons!

His behaviour at preschool is fine, never had any complaints anyway. He is not horrible or anything at home just can’t be still or chill for a minute and isn’t interested in craft or baking type activities.

I don’t understand what you don’t understand @Catopia sorry.

Apologies I see what you mean. Let me guess, you had a child who wouldn’t wake up if you transferred them from car to house, or if they did, they’d go back to sleep?

I am sure you can guess what I’m going to say

Being critical of what I’m doing with huffy ‘I can see why he escalates’ is really rather unkind.

I'm not trying to be unkind or critical, but realistic - no one who would realistically recommend leaving her unattended in the car for any period of time whatsoever, nor would they recommend her sleeping in a car seat for over an hour. The routine you've set up is neither safe for her, nor is it giving your son 1:1 time, and it means you're splitting yourself in two between two locations and is creating two less than ideal situations for both of them. If she sleeps in the car and wakes up on transfer, she wakes up on transfer... Your alternatives would appear to be either (1) what I suggested, which is putting her in the buggy to sleep from the nursery and doing an activity near there, (2) keeping her awake and pushing her nap back by 30 minutes to get her home and putting her down for nap when she gets home, (3) if she only naps on movement, taking her out in pram for a lap around the block maybe with him on a buggy board or scooter or something so she will then go to sleep and can bring her into the house in the buggy and kipping in there whilst he has 1:1 time with her within earshot. Any of these options would be better and safer for all involved and cause you considerably less stress in terms of having to go back and forth.

Well indeed which is why I am looking to change it.

But at present

If I take her out of the car seat she will wake up and will not go back to sleep for a good couple of hours, thus messing up bedtime.

I can’t keep her awake for long enough to get ds and get home

I obviously can’t leave her at home alone while I get ds

So something does have to change.

She hates the pushchair and will not sleep in it but that aside we cannot walk to preschool. It’s a couple of miles away on country roads with no pavements where cars zoom down at national speed limit and more.

transfer her to a buggy and a bit of activity for your ds, while you go for a walk somewhere, feed the ducks, she rests and he can be active

As I’ve explained that just doesn’t work. She hates the buggy and just tries to escape from it constantly sometimes successfully The days when she just snoozed while ds did his thing are long since gone.

so can they both be active out and about somewhere?

I also had kids who didn't do a transfer so I totally get that..

I think a lot don’t, it must make life soooo much easier if they do though!

I’m getting lost here.

They can only be out and active at a limited number of places because one can’t walk.

I have to take into account the fact that the younger one needs to sleep for a couple of hours in the day and absolutely will not be transferred from car to house or car to pushchair, just isn’t happening.

I do try and I do a lot with them both but I also have to parent the children I have, not fictitious ones who will nap anywhere.

No. As in no, you are not being unreasonable.