Would you report offensive message in a group work chat?

[ChilliPB]

As the title says really. A pretty offensive meme sent as ‘banter’ (not funny and genuinely offensive). It was sent in a group chat - a non-official WhatsApp chat with over 50 people, used for social chat. We have a separate more official group chat for work related stuff.

Options are to pick it up individually with the person (who I don’t know and have never met). Or flag direct to HR. Or flag up to HR but not disclose what was said or who said it and hope they could send a stern but general reminder about behaviour and conduct and the individual wouldn’t actually be identified.

Appreciate its a non-official chat but even so. Really likely to offend some of the members there and also it’s the sort of job where if it came out it would look awful, and I’m worried those that don’t report it could also be in trouble as complicit.

What would you do?!

Ok, so individual(s) in HR get to decide what they class as offensive or not? What about their individual views? Do they receive training on ‘things that are classed as offensive’ ? If so, who writes the training material?
Do you not see the problem with this??

People have the right not to be friends with work colleagues. They have the right not to like their work colleagues. They don't have the right to exclude collagues they don't like in such a way as to make their working life unbearable.

If their behaviour means that they are ignoring them if the colleague speaks to them, that they are not passing on information necessary for them to do their job and if they are encouraging others to exclude them, this would be considered to be bullying and harassment in most work places.

I completely agree. People are literally calling out for people to receive consequences for expressing views they don’t like, or making jokes THEY deem offensive, but it won’t be long before those individuals express an opinion themselves that offends someone else and then they are on the receiving end of the same fucking bollocks.

What if OP text the person back and said “I don’t like that, I think you are racist”

The person she says it too is offended by being called a racist but rather than explaining their stance to OP, they go to HR and the OP gets investigated and disciplined because it turns out that actually, the meme wasn’t racist…

This has to work both ways to work at all.

Yes so, I agree with the second paragraph. If it’s stopping someone from doing their work then fair enough. It needs to be sorted.

But I just had images of HR calling someone in the office to tell them they HAVE to say good morning to xxx because otherwise it’s bullying.

*But WE DONT KNOW what the meme even was… just that the OP found it offensive.

Do you not see the problem with people ‘taking action’ because they’re offended by something? Who gets to decide what is offensive? It’s completely subjective - I may find something offensive that is water off a duck’s back to you or vice versa.
By all means tell someone to stop being a prick if they’re being one, reply to the text and express your view but actually reporting it to HR is completely unnecessary IMO.

It’s like that guy who got an actual prison sentence for posting something on Facebook. Did I agree with what he said?? Of course I fucking didn’t, in my opinion the guy was a complete moron. Do I think he should have gone to prison for saying it? Absolutely fucking not.*

@Errors It doesn't matter what the meme was. OP thought that it was offensive and so should report it. It's not for OP to decide whether 'action' needs to be taken be taken or not, her role is simply to report.

If xxx says good morning to their colleague every morning and their colleague always refuses to say good morning back, this could probably be considered as part of the bullying allegations, particularly if it is very obvious and makes other colleagues uncomfortable.

These are supposed to be professional people in the work place, not small children and certain standards of polite behaviour can reasonably be expected.

I wonder if it could backfire IF it is really just about hezbollah because muslims on the group would be offended that OP thinks they are all same as that and automatically share hezbollah views simply because they are muslims (let's not get into depths of shia/sunni/etc, just simply fall under muslims in this case for ease). If that makes sense.

Ok, so how do HR decide whether it was offensive or not?
Will they decide it’s offensive simply based on the fact that the OP was offended? Will they use their own personal interpretation of what’s offensive?

I'm not HR, but I would refer for disciplinary if someone in my team was refusing to say "good morning" to any other staff member, client, supplier, cleaner, or in fact anyone else around the office. I do not tolerate gratuitous rudeness from anyone to anyone. The reasons not to speak to someone involves only criminal activity, and we have security checks so that excuse is out. Knowing our CHRO, they would get a lengthy chat and steps to resolve at a minimum.

It makes sense and highlights the problem perfectly to me.
OP is offended by a meme (which presumably is words on a screen and a picture of some sort)
Other people get offended by OP being offended and saying she is offended. Then other people are offended by those people getting offended by the OP being offended… I mean, where does it end?

Exactly. A lot of people posting about Lebanon have offended me with their implication that everyone in Lebanon is linked to Hezbollah! This could go on and on.

That’s crazy, I hope you mean a pattern of behaviour and not a one off. Everyone has a bad day or gets busy/stressed.

Wow. What if that person was having a bad day and just wanted to get to their desk and get some work done? What if they didn’t hear someone else saying good morning to them? What if their hearing was failing and they didn’t realise???

Do people seriously not see the problem with this? I’ve worked in plenty of work places with people who have been volatile to say the least. Some mornings they would stomp in and flop down at their desk and be purposely ignorant of everyone around them. I thought they were childish and pathetic but never once did it cross my mind to report them for it FFS

This:

@Sparklesandbeer I get you. But OP said it was Islamaphobic so I'll take her word for it. I mean, taking the piss out of an IRA bombing in the 80s wouldn't necessarily be 'anti-protestant/catholic' but it would be in very poor taste. I'd say even if they don't class it as Islamaphobic they'd class it as highly insensitive and breaching company Comms guidelines etc.

Why wouldn’t that be anti Protestant/Catholic?

I get what you mean as well, that op said it. But I would be aware of the fact many people don't distinguish between muslims as normal people and islamic terrorists so they see attack on the latter as attack on the former. The meme could well be islamophobic but it well also doesn't have to be.

@Hatsb when the person making the alleged joke knows nothing about the troubles and just wants to be gross and shock people by joking about bombings.

@Sparklesandbeer totally agree. Often these things are just people trying to shock and be offensive. At best as a coping mechanism, at worst cos they're an arsehole. Or both.

Who decides will depend on the company's disciplinary policy - probably a manager who conducts the disciplinary meeting, with reference to any relevant policies and with advice from HR. There would usually be an appeals process as well, which would be conducted by someone different.

Are you suggesting that nobody should ever be disciplined for discriminatory behaviour in the workplace just in case someone has to make a subjective judgement that others might disagree with?

We don’t even know what has taken place as op ran off!

Firstly, HR staff should have at least a basic understanding of legislation, as part of their role is to advise the organisation on this.

Secondly, it wouldn't usually be HR's decision. HR is usually an advisory role and it would be down to a line manager to carry out the investigation and implement a disciplinary process, with advice and support from HR to ensure that due process is followed. Managers should have received appropriate training but of course, many won't have done.

Ultimately, someone might be fired for what others consider to be a subjective judgement. That's the nature of organisational hierarchies, I'm afraid - those in senior roles get to decide what they are willing to tolerate within the work culture and what they are not. As long as they have done everything legally, then it doesn't actually matter if you disagree and think that you should be allowed to post racist or sexist memes in a group chat etc...unless you are the boss, that isn't your decision to make.

We don't know what has taken place, but that's irrelevant.

OP has seen something that she thinks is discriminatory. Unless she is the line manager (unlikely as she has never met the person who posted it), it isn't her job to investigate the matter and form a judgement. The only duty on her is to report the matter so that it can be investigated by the appropriate person.

It doesn't matter whether you or I would agree that the post was racist or not. What matters is whether the OP's employer considers it to be acceptable behaviour or not.

Fair enough but the thread was asking our opinions, hard to give an opinion on nothing.

It isn't nothing though.

The question was whether or not the OP should report something that she considered to be discriminatory. It is perfectly possible to give an opinion on that.

She wasn't asking for opinions on whether or not the meme itself was discriminatory so there is no need for any of us to comment on that.