A roundabout one

[anotherside]

I’ve only been driving a couple of years so would like the view of more experienced drivers. I was waiting to join a basic 4 entrance/exit roundabout. I was indicating left (leaving at my first exit, a quarter way round the roundabout). The car to my right was also waiitng to join roundabout and also indicating left - IE signalling they would exit at my entrance so we wouldn’t interfere with one another. He/She was indicating for at least 3-4 seconds before joining the roundabout, at which point he/she began driving slowly as if their intention was indeed to leave at their first exit (my exit) while still continuing to indicate their intention to leave for a further 2-3 seconds on entering the roundabout
(ie,still indicating their intention to exit at my entrance).

I’d been observing this car closely (roundabout wasn't very busy) and so given their clear and unequivocal indication that they were NOT going straight ahead but were leaving at their first exit (IE, clear left exit available to them, continuous left indicator, slow driving speed) I decided to pull out. At which point it transpired they WERE going straight ahead after all, they had to brake (not dangerously), and I got beeped.

So I guess to summarise it’s this -

you’re on a roundabout and the car to your right is giving and has been giving clear and unequivocal signs that they’re getting off before you’re getting on - so you get on. But then car to your right changes their mind/doesn’t understand indicators etc - and so decides to go straight over after all, Are you still in the wrong for moving out (obviously not dangerously so, as in leaping out 5 metres in front if they did happen to change their mind) in front of them? And even if you are wrong to move out in theory, wouldn’t it’s application in practice mean that traffic gets seriously delayed - on the off chance that the person to your right is the 1 in 1000 that thinks a clear left signal on an obvious four exit roundabout = I’m going straight ahead.

Always assume people do what they like on roundabouts and wait until.clear even if they indicate they are turning. It's chaos out there.

but they didnt go left even though they were indicating, i guess no beeping should have occurred, by them at least, seems like they were wrong

If they had crashed into you because you had pulled out in front of them, in all likelihood insurance would have found it to be your fault. You have to make allowances for people being idiots. They may be found to have contributed to the accident (if they admitted they were signalling left) but it would still be mainly your fault.

I've been driving for a long time but recently did my CBT (bike test) so have the knowledge of both experience And recent testing and I can say that the latest (perhaps always?!) teachings are that you wait until the other person has completed their manoeuvre, or at least commited (IE started to turn)... As evidenced by your experience, people get it wrong (or change their minds!)!

on a road, i would not pull out until i was sure they were turning left, in theory at least,

Always assume other drivers are idiots.

It's (annoyingly) quite common for people to signal before entering a roundabout and then signal again when they're about to turn off.

Yep. I’ve been honked at occasionally by some impatient (fancy car) driver behind me for hesitation, but I’ve learned that absolutely no one can be trusted on a roundabout. Intuition gets better over time!

Sure - I’ve been applying the same thinking the past year. But this car had me well and truly fooled. I guess I’ll have to be that car that sits at the roundabout not moving until it’s empty as a desert in future. 😅

It's wrong to move out even if the signal is in correct - as in your insurance is the one that would pay in an accident. The more you drive the more you will start to recognise the micro signals and positions that indicate that the indicators are incorrect.
It's annoying I get it - and the other car shouldn't have beeped you as they were clearly in the wrong too but as a driver your job is to not take chances - particularly if its not busy - wait to be sure of the drivers intention - you can't tell me you have never left your indicator on past a junction or realised you wetr indicating incorrectly and instinct tells you to go the direction you want to travel not the direction you are indicating you will travel.

Sure I’ve made mistakes - but I guess it was the audacity of him/her beeping me that led to me festering on it and a lengthy post on here, rather than putting it to one side 😅 I guess I’m just not a beeper.

A flashing indicator means only one thing for sure - the bulb works. It sounds like you misread the other driver. Not unusual, so dont beat yourself up over it.

Sometimes people don't realise their indicators are still from previous manoeuvre. I dont trust anyone on a roundabout. I notice people who don't indicate at all, roundabout would run smoother if they did. Or only indicate their first intention and not to come off which is irritating.

The lesson to learn from this OP is to eliminate gaps in your observation. Would a very experienced driver have planned to go into the gap you describe - absolutely. Would they have pulled out and forced the other vehicle to brake - absolutely not.

The reason it happens, and I see it all the time with my learners, is that there is a gap in observation - a time gap. I can pretty much guarantee you have followed this sequence:

Observe to the right - car on right coming off - we can go
Look forward
Get car moving
Get a car length onto the roundabout
Oh that car didn't turn...

What experience brings is:

Observe to the right - car on right coming off - we can go
Look forward
Get car moving
Double check observation before fully committing onto roundabout
Get a car length onto the roundabout
Oh that car didn't turn

Always, always, always have a last check before committing across the line. There will almost certainly have been at least a 1-2 second gap between your last observation and entering the roundabout (even if you don't realise it), and that is why you were caught out. On this occasion no harm done, but what if it had been a bit of a racer on your right who really gave it the beans off the line?

EDIT:

A little anecdote I like to tell my students comes from a really good learner I had years ago who did almost exactly the same thing, and I stopped them from entering the roundabout. When I asked her why she thought I knew the car had gone against their indication and she didn't, she replied "You looked". Couldn't have put it better myself.

I think I would have done the same as you OP, thinking of the various roundabout near me where you can’t wait for a gap as it would never appear. However probably as a PP said I am also waiting for some micro signal where I am confident the driver will do what they are indicating.

If the car was on your right there should be 2 lanes on the roundabout.

How far left were you?

We have on roundabout where you have to go quite far left once entering the roundabout so the car on the right has room.

can you google map the roundabout so we can see?

The 1st rule is, never believe that people are going to do what they appear to be indicating. I used to drive to work nearly every morning behind a woman who indicated right then left to go straight. She got in any lane to do it. And tons of others who clearly don't think that indicating applies to them. It drives me mad, but for my own safety I work on the theory that another driver could do just anything. Thinking of the woman who cut me up on a roundabout one evening and nearly caused me to crash. She clearly had unused indicators.
And it doesn't matter what the markings on the road tell them, some idiot will do it completely wrong.

"You have to make allowances for people being idiots" yes, this.

The best thing about this is that an idiot behind you will probably beep you as they can't cope with you not moving. That's their problem. You do you and drive safely, let the idiots get stroppy and bash each other.

I know someone who doesn’t understand roundabout signals or lanes, and is a frequent cause of near-misses. They misunderstood an instruction from their driving instructor 4 decades ago, and no amount of discussion will persuade them they’re wrong. So I think it’s always safest to wait for a huge gap, just in case the other driver is like this person.

No it doesn't! Indicating left when sitting at a roundabout doesn't mean "I'm either going left or straight ahead."

You can't rely on indicators because drivers don't know how to use them, aren't paying attention and which exit they'll be taking is as much a surprise to them as to all the other road users. And many seem to think indicating right covers all possibilities. It's a zoo out there.

One tip I picked up recently and which I find helps is to watch the wheels of the other car. It is a far clearer sign of what they are actually doing than anything else. Indicators can be misleading so treat those with some caution, but the wheels give a very good sign of what the car is about to do.

Was the second exit for them i.e the one after you definitely atvor past ther 12 o clock? Otherwise according tonmy sons driving instructor they wpuld have been right to indicate left coming onto the roundabout if their exit 2, your exit 1 was left if their 12 o clcock.

I was surprised atvthis but he is insistent it is the case. There is a roundabout near hear that catches everyone out because the sign approaching it shows exit 2 as being well left of 12 o clock but visually when you get there it looks pretty much like straight ahead (it isnt quite).

@sunbum He is incorrect. See below from Highway Code. Anything after the first exit and before the right exit is "intermediate". The driver should have indicated after OP's entering place.

She means she was waiting to enter the roundabout and the car that was on her right was already on the roundabout. Not in a different lane.

I'm quite new to driving too as the UN suggests, and was taught to wait until the other driver commits to or completes their manoeuvre before pulling out at a roundabout or junction, regardless of signalling or position because the onus is on me pulling onto the new road.

Sometimes you can't do right for doing wrong in a situation like this because I have waited and been beeped from behind by someone - even when the car already on the roundabout is signalling incorrectly and goes straight on and pulling out would have meant I would have pulled out in front of them, or the other way around when the car isn't signalling and their position is ambiguous, but they're going off at the exit before mine, don't indicate at all, then go that way and I'm then sat there like a plum facing an empty roundabout!

But I'd rather be beeped at than crash tbh, so I wait regardless of what the cars behind me are doing or their feelings on waiting a few extra seconds. Gonna cause more of a wait if I crash into someone on a roundabout regardless of who's indicators are doing what.

You've only supposed to sound your horn to make someone aware you are there, so in this case technically that's what the other driver was doing, although in reality they probably were telling you off.

You'll get people saying that you're hesitant and dangerous if you wait, and you're impatient and dangerous if you don't.